Renting through an agency, little advice wanted

anselld wrote: »

Well that is a different question.

Provided you served the section 1 address request correctly and you have evidence of this you could bring a private prosecution in magistrates court, or council TRO could do likewise.

see here, including comments ...
http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2010/09/03/landlord’s-addresses-and-other-matters/

LA relies on the fact that it is too much expense / hassle. TRO would be unlikely to make the effort unless there has been a more serious offence such as unsafe conditions or illegal eviction etc.

Interesting,

I've already tried TRO and they simply can't be arsed to do anything.. As there aren't unsafe conditions etc.

On the website you linked to it says that under the landlord and tenant act 1987,

"If the landlord doesn’t supply what is called a Section 48 address then the law states they are not entitled to receive any rent until they do. Section 48 of the LTA actually says this….."

And also,

"The address doesn’t have to be the landlord’s actual home address but an address must be supplied."

Well a Section 48 address has been supplied for the serving of notices etc, which has been given as the agencies address, so that's correct.

What's got my goat though is I did put in writing (E-Mail is classed as in writing isn't it?) and after exactly 21 days the agency got back to me with the address of the agency as the landlords 'address' ....

BUT on the website you linked to I note with interest it says,

"In addition to the section 48 address we looked at above, there is also a legal requirement for the landlord to provide their address, (not simply an address for service of documents)." Section 1 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 states that if a tenant puts a request in writing to the landlord asking for their address the landlord has to respond, also in writing and within 21 days giving their address."

So that tells me because I gave the agent 21 days to give me the landlords actual address and they didn't provide it that they've broken the law? Or the landlord has broken the law by telling the agent he does not want his home address given out?

So where it says,

"Section 48 might make it difficult for a landlord to receive rent until they comply but the penalty for breaching this one is far more severe. The Act says….. A person who, without reasonable excuse, fails to comply with subsection (1) commits a summary offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale."

Because the landlord/agent hasn't given me the landlords 'actual' address they've broken the law and the landlord can be sued for this?

To sum up the agency has ignored my request for the landlords 'actual' address.

My local TRO isn't bothered enough to attempt to enforce it, all they did was contact the agency and told them they must provide an address for the landlord.. As far as I know they told the agency it had to be the landlords 'actual' address, so that was a waste of time as the agency ignored them and only gave the agencies address.

I can only assume my only course of action now is court action to get the landlords address, of course only after I try the other things mentioned by Franklee below.

Basically my argument is this,

The landlord and tenant act 1987 says an address must be given for any notices or documents to be served to the landlord i.e. giving notice etc.

The landlord and tenant act 1985 says the landlords HOME address must be supplied if requested within 21 days from the request date.

So presumably the landlord and tenant act 1987 doesn't supercede the 1985 act does it? They're both enforceable in a court right? One doesn't overrule the other does it?

franklee wrote: »

Suggest you write to the agent asking for your landlord's name and address quoting the following:

Section 1 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985:

1 Disclosure of landlord’s identity.

(1) If the tenant of premises occupied as a dwelling makes a written request for the landlord’s name and address to—

(a) any person who demands, or the last person who received, rent payable under the tenancy, or

(b) any other person for the time being acting as agent for the landlord, in relation to the tenancy,

that person shall supply the tenant with a written statement of the landlord’s name and address within the period of 21 days beginning with the day on which he receives the request.

pointing out that address is defined by the 1985 Act as a person’s place of abode or place of business or, in the case of a company, it's registered office..

If they ignore it then ask at your local council TRO to enforce. If they ignore then copy the whole lot to your MP and the agent's franchise head office pointing out the offence. Copy also to any bodies the agent is a member of e.g. ARLA asking ARLA if that is acceptable for their members. However if the local council won't prosecute you're pretty stuck.

Does any post for the landlord arrive at your home? If not and he used to live there then he may have postal redirection in place so you could try writing to him at your address to see if it arrives back with you or not. You could write to him and pop it through the Christmas card neighbour's door in the hope they send it on. If his name is unusual enough try google searches, facebook etc.

As for the mortgage did you ask if the agent saw proof of consent to let. I'd bet they didn't so you could ask about that too or if you think that won't work you could write to the lender letting them know you are the tenant there. They won't give you any information but hopefully they will take note of what you write.

Just to clarify the landlords address DOES have to be his home address or an address he physically works at right, it can't be the agency we rent through as the landlord doesn't live there or work there nor is it his companies registered office.

No post comes here for the landlord as the house has been rented out several times in the past and if he does have a redirection service active I wouldn't know as allegedly he's been renting it out for so long (according to the neighbours) I'd assume any redirection has been cancelled now?

I was told the other day by our neighbour that they receive a christmas card from him every year BUT were quick (too quick) to tell me they don't have his address to send 1 back to him, that I don't believe for a second..

I note you say if the local council won't prosecute then i'm pretty stuck, well just because my local council won't prosecute doesn't mean I'm stuck surely? At the end of the day the landlord has broken the law therefore can't get away with it just because the council won't prosecute, I can take the landlord to court myself, it doesn't necessarily have to be the council does it.

As for facebook/google etc to find the landlords address, no such luck as the landlords name seems pretty common.

Okay.

Basically I do want to stay in the house but what I also want is the landlords actual address so I can write to the landlord outlining my concerns about the agent, the agency is refusing to provide the landlords address and allegedly the landlord himself has told the agency he doesn't want his address given out, surely the agency know the law?

Therefore 'should' know there breaking it right?

I can see it appears I want to prosecute the landlord (I don't) I just want his address but if the only way to get his address is through the court, that would mean I have no choice but to prosecute doesn't it? Sorry if I sound a little confused but it seems the only option if my local TRO won't do anything and the agency won't give me the landlords address.

So basically that's my goal.

Any advice on how else to get the landlords address as the agency most definitely won't give me it.. And the only viable option it seems is court action, something I don't want to do but because the agency is being very difficult it seems I have no choice do I?

It seems the agency wants to cause problems for the landlord and haven't actually told him he's breaking the law when it comes to having to provide his address.

G_M wrote: »

This has come up before.

As has been explained, under the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 you have a right to the LL's address.

The reality is, however, that enforcement is very hard. It involves prosecution (rather than a civil action which is easier for a tenant to undertake) and the police and TROs are generally only interested (due to huge resource problems) if there is a significant issue at stake: dangerous premises; harassment; etc).

I don't want to belittle your concern, but just 'not liking' a 'rude' agent is not enough to motivate them into the costly, time-consuming bisiness of a criminal prosecution.

That's my point, that I am entitled to the landlords address, it's just like you say it seems VERY hard to enforce! But the law is in place for a reason and just because it's hard to enforce, it is a law therefore MUST be enforced musn't it? Otherwise agencies are a law unto themselves and will always get away with not providing information they have to provide by law.

So it definitely requires a criminal action, because our contract is obviously with the landlord, it's just the agent being VERY difficult regarding giving out his address, and the agency must know there technically untouchable as we don't have a contract with them.

Basically you've hit the nail on the head regarding harassment, when we first moved in we had problems with the boiler not working correctly, they sent a plumber who sorted it out, it was an issue with the pressure which the agency tried to bill us for, which I knew was wrong.. As anything to do with heating and hot water is the landlords responsibility as per the tenancy agreement.

The problem is the agent in question spoke to my fiancee like sh*t on the phone and said if we didn't pay the bill (about £30) which is what the plumber allegedly charged just to adjust the pressure on the boiler, then the agent would get us out at his own expense if we didn't pay it... So I said okay then send ME the bill and I'll pay it, knowing full well if they sent the bill I'd have evidence they did indeed charge us for the boiler 'repair' if they tried to take it out the deposit when/if we vacate the tenancy, they said they'd be doing that anyway... Can't see them getting away with that of course but we'll see.

So it's not just the fact the agent was rude, he went way over the top and for a supposed 'professional' speaking to tenants like he did is a cause for concern and I believe the landlord needs to know how his agent treats his tenants.

Can I ask you said it's not enough to motivate THEM into a costly, time consuming business of a criminal prosecution, whose them? Do you mean a solicitor?