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BT Renewable Contract - my challenge succeeded
inclement
Posts: 15 Forumite
in Phones & TV
Hi,
I wanted to share with you the experience I've had with BT. I moved my landline to BT in August 2009 onto the evening & weekend plan. I left BT in October 2010 however BT claimed that I was in an auto-renewable contract so I was tied into another 12 months. They tried to charge me termination charges however I argued that there cannot be a contract in place from August 2010 as I didn't agree to anything. The argument I have hinges on the fact that I didn't receive a letter from BT telling me that the contract was going to auto-renew. I have no doubt that BT sent the letter but the fact is that I didn't receive it and on that basis there can't be a subsequent contract in place.
If anyone is interested in the letter I sent to BT to challenge their view then I'd be happy to post the contents. I have a law degree and was able to draw on what I'd learnt to take issue with BTs view on the contractual position.
Regards,
Inclement
I wanted to share with you the experience I've had with BT. I moved my landline to BT in August 2009 onto the evening & weekend plan. I left BT in October 2010 however BT claimed that I was in an auto-renewable contract so I was tied into another 12 months. They tried to charge me termination charges however I argued that there cannot be a contract in place from August 2010 as I didn't agree to anything. The argument I have hinges on the fact that I didn't receive a letter from BT telling me that the contract was going to auto-renew. I have no doubt that BT sent the letter but the fact is that I didn't receive it and on that basis there can't be a subsequent contract in place.
If anyone is interested in the letter I sent to BT to challenge their view then I'd be happy to post the contents. I have a law degree and was able to draw on what I'd learnt to take issue with BTs view on the contractual position.
Regards,
Inclement
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Comments
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I think it'd be useful if you could post that text in any case.Time has moved on (much quicker than it used to - or so it seems at my age) and my previous advice on residential telephony has been or is now gradually being overtaken by changes in the retail market. Hence, I have now deleted links to my previous 'pearls of wisdom'. I sincerely hope they helped save some of you money.0
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I think this is the way BT operate ! The contract customers have are automatic renewing and you have to notify them if you do not wish to renew , but they do not send out letters of impending renewal.
Inclement ; are you saying this failure to notify nullifies the contract ?You scullion! You rampallian! You fustilarian! I’ll tickle your catastrophe (Henry IV part 2)0 -
Hi,
Sorry for not getting back sooner - here is the letter I sent to BT. The content is my opinion however it would be interesting to see what would happen if it was challenged any further. This response does hinge on the fact that we did not receive a letter from BT saying that the contract was going to be renewed. Note that it is my wife's name on the BT account so I have been writing on her behalf.
I hope this helps.
**********************************************
Dear xxxxxxxxx,
Re: Termination charge of £30.00 on account GB00000000
Thank you for your letter of xxth November 2010. I have read the contents with interest and would like to respond to the points you have made.
I wholeheartedly agree that my wife entered into a contract with you for 12 months from xxth August 2009 and this contract ceased to exist on yyth August 2010. I also understand your assertion that there is an auto-renewable contract in place. Whether or not the implications of this were explained to my wife in full, is a matter of conjecture. Had my wife cancelled the contract with you prior to the yyth August 2010 I would have no issue with the fact that cancellation charges would be due.
My argument is that from the yyth August 2010 a 12 month contract cannot have existed with your company as the fundamental elements for the creation of a contract were not present. As I am sure you are aware there are four elements that have to be satisfied to constitute a legally binding contract; offer, acceptance, consideration and an intention to create legal relations. I have no doubt that you sent a letter a month prior to yyth August however we did not receive it. I would deem this letter to be your offer and as such, the fact that we did not receive the letter means that no offer can have been made. The “postal rule” in contract law only applies to acceptance of an offer and not to the offer itself so the fact that you posted the letter has no legal relevance. As I stated in my last letter, mere silence or inaction is insufficient in English Law to constitute an acceptance of a contract. This then determines that there was no acceptance of a 12 month contract. There has been consideration as we have paid the monthly bills that you have sent however this only gives evidence of a monthly agreement between ourselves. The final part, the intention to create legal relations relies upon the intentions of the parties. It was always my wife’s intention that she would be tied into an initial 12 month contract and after that time there would be a rolling 1 month contract. This intention may be at odds with the intention of BT however this was my wife’s intention and understanding on xxth August 2009.
On the face of the events that have occurred, I am of the opinion that 3 of the 4 fundamental elements to establish a contract are missing so there cannot have been a 12 month contract created on yyth August 2010. As such, if there is no contract there can be no cancellation charge so could you please remove the charge of £30 and re-issue the final bill ?0 -
anotherbaldrick wrote: »I think this is the way BT operate ! The contract customers have are automatic renewing and you have to notify them if you do not wish to renew , but they do not send out letters of impending renewal.
Inclement ; are you saying this failure to notify nullifies the contract ?
It's an unfair contract term - how can you tie a consumer into a contract they know nothing about?
http://www.oft.gov.uk/about-the-oft/legal-powers/legal/unfair-terms/guidance#named9
BT have had a few complaints go to OFCOM and arbitration about their auto-renewal policy.I'm not cynical I'm realistic
(If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)0 -
Hi,
I was prepared to go as far as Ofcom however BT backed down very quickly. It would be interesting to see what would happen if this particular situation went to Ofcom and was viewed in a legal contractual sense.
Inclement0 -
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Brian,
The comment re: unfair contract terms was not from me and I don't really think that it is a valid claim.
My point is that if you don't receive a letter after 11 months stating that there is to be a new contract coming into force (an offer) then there can be no new 12 month contract created. The fact that you then carry on paying on a monthly basis only gives evidence to a rolling monthly contract and not a new 12 month contract. As a result, you can't be made to pay cancellation fees.
It appears BT weren't prepared to challenge this and cancelled the fees as soon as they received my letter.
I hope this can help anyone else in this situation.
Inclement0 -
I have forwarded a link to your letter to Martin suggesting that it forms the basis of one of his famous template letters.Time has moved on (much quicker than it used to - or so it seems at my age) and my previous advice on residential telephony has been or is now gradually being overtaken by changes in the retail market. Hence, I have now deleted links to my previous 'pearls of wisdom'. I sincerely hope they helped save some of you money.0
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Brian,
The comment re: unfair contract terms was not from me and I don't really think that it is a valid claim.
My point is that if you don't receive a letter after 11 months stating that there is to be a new contract coming into force (an offer) then there can be no new 12 month contract created. The fact that you then carry on paying on a monthly basis only gives evidence to a rolling monthly contract and not a new 12 month contract. As a result, you can't be made to pay cancellation fees.
Yes, I understand your view but it was the idea (not from you) that the terms of the contract were unknown which was puzzling.
When the contract is entered into it is known that:- The calls plan will be renewed automatically after 12 months without the customer needing to do anything about it.
- The customer needs to request not to renew before the renewal date.
Part of your argument relies on not receiving a letter from BT. The letter serves to remind you about something you already knew about - an existing contract whose terms you were aware of, not a new contract with the same or different terms and conditions. The offer had been made the previous year (please see above). BT's letter is a reminder about it.
Not receiving BT's reminder is unfortunate but it doesn't offer anything you had not already agreed to. There is no new offer. You agreed to tell BT if you did not want to stay on the deal. You didn't. BT kept their side of the bargain and continued to give you the Evening and Weekend calls plan under the same conditions. At no stage is a new contract proposed. You have the same contract (which, to remind you, is known about) for another term.
Incidentally, with a few adjustments the arguments in your letter to BT could be used by someone who admitted receiving the letter from BT but had ignored it.0 -
JustPassingBy wrote: »Yes, I understand your view but it was the idea (not from you) that the terms of the contract were unknown which was puzzling.
When the contract is entered into it is known that:- The calls plan will be renewed automatically after 12 months without the customer needing to do anything about it.
- The customer needs to request not to renew before the renewal date.
Not receiving BT's reminder is unfortunate but it doesn't offer anything you had not already agreed to. There is no new offer. You agreed to tell BT if you did not want to stay on the deal. You didn't. BT kept their side of the bargain and continued to give you the Evening and Weekend calls plan under the same conditions. At no stage is a new contract proposed. You have the same contract (which, to remind you, is known about) for another term.
Incidentally, with a few adjustments the arguments in your letter to BT could be used by someone who admitted receiving the letter from BT but had ignored it.
Must admit that word for word, this is my interpretation as well.
The "intention to create a contract" was when the renewing plan was sold in the first place.
But then I'm far from a legal expert
And, the letter has worked for at least one person. 0
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