Breadmaking - recipes, hints, tips, questions

Loadsabob · 31 May 2005 at 12:15PM

Daisy wrote:

I've not been totally happy with the basic white loaf even after changing butter and flour brands. It just had a funny lingering sort of taste. Yesterday though, I made some dough, and decided to make a plait loaf and it's turned out absolutely gorgeous. Don't really understand why cooking it in my oven rather than the breadmaker would make such a difference, but it's easier to cut too for some reason.

Daisy,

Whenever I have the time I use the dough only cycle, then squish it back down and fold into a tin for the final rise, then bake in the oven. I really prefer the bread that way - perhaps it tastes nicer because it has more air circulating around it?...not sure, but I tend to do this more often than not, now, and I prefer the shape I get from the loaf tins I use, to the shape of the loaves baked in the machine.

Curry_Queen · 31 May 2005 at 12:18PM

lucylou wrote:

I made a white loaf from the recipe on the back of the hovis yeat pack and then made another loaf but this time added to it honey and cinammon it's really good!

When you next try the honey and cinnamon one, replace some of the flour with oats, it's seriously yummy!

Curry_Queen · 31 May 2005 at 12:20PM

Jo4 wrote:

There is a "Breville BR8L Anthony Worrell Thompson Breadmaker" online for £59.99 http://www.carncomarketing.co.uk/index.php/fuseaction/shop.product/categoryid/12/productid/25

BTW I have no association with this site but I have just ordered one so I will let yous know if I receive it, if yous want! Hope this helps someone!

If you're willing to spend that amount of money on a breadmaker I'd seriously advise you to go for the Panasonic one! The SD-252, I think it is, without the nut dispenser is only a few pounds more than that and the difference in quality and taste if bread is astounding! My previous model was a Breville, which does make very good bread, but my Panasonic beats it hands down

Loadsabob · 31 May 2005 at 12:40PM

I am working towards good wholewheat bread, as my boyfriend avoids white flour wherever possible.

I have a great book on baking wholewheat bread, but the time factor has put me off a lot of the recipes! It's more like a way of life than just making bread, apparently!

HOWEVER, there is a section at the end on machines, and I have learnt some interesting things!...

First off, the problem with wholewheat bread not rising properly in machines (mine was always ridiculously flat and dense!). The writer explained that wholewheat bread needs a tin NO WIDER then 5 inches. Any wider, and it will fail to rise fully. I checked, and mine is just a little too wide to make that climb, it seems.

The writer recommends always warming the pan with very hot water whilst getting all the ingredients out. I do this now, and the pan stays warm all the time I'm putting the ingredients in. She also gets the water / milk and oil warm before adding to the pan. Some machines have a pre-warm apparently; mine doesn't.

The writer also said not to be scared to life the lid on the machine during kneading. It's only during the second rise that you really can't disturb it. But she encourages you to prod the dough whilst it's mixing, and get a feel for how it should be, so you can add more flour and water as appropriate. This seems to be important because every milling of wholewheat flour produces a slightly different flour (unlike with white), which may absorb more or less water than the next milling...so you may need to adjust your liquid content each time, and the way to do that is by feel.

Personally, I am working on trial and error. For my own use I am substituting one cup of wholewheat flour for white, to get a slightly lighter texture. But my main successes have been to make a wholemeal mix up using the dough cycle, twice, then take it out, knock it back, pop in loaf tin (less than 5 inches wide!) for the final rise and then in the oven to bake. Much lighter, no problem with the rise. I've had some record loaves!!

This thread is very helpful - I think a Panasonic is for me when this machine bites the dust. Although in the meantime, for those of us without, possibly even putting the wholewheat recipe through the dough cycle first, THEN through the wholewheat cycle would make the total time longer before backing, and give a better chance of a good rise? I think I'll try that, too.

(The book is "The Laurel's Kitchen Breadbook" - I really love it; no photos, just drawings. If I had all the time in the world I'd be working through the book!)

moggins · 31 May 2005 at 12:56PM

Just a thought but for those of you with machines that aren't right for your purposes and waiting for them to die, have you thought about advertising them in the local free ads and using the money to buy another that does what you want it to?

It's not quite moneysaving but you'll probably use a better machine more often and it would be a justifiable expense that way, and get some money towards it.

megasaver · 31 May 2005 at 1:22PM

Curry_Queen wrote:

If you're willing to spend that amount of money on a breadmaker I'd seriously advise you to go for the Panasonic one! The SD-252, I think it is, without the nut dispenser is only a few pounds more than that and the difference in quality and taste if bread is astounding! My previous model was a Breville, which does make very good bread, but my Panasonic beats it hands down

Hi Curry_Queen, so glad to hear that there is now yet another Panasonic devotee out there and that I not alone in recommending it - the difference is amazing isn't it!

Loadsabob wrote:

But my main successes have been to make a wholemeal mix up using the dough cycle, twice, then take it out, knock it back, pop in loaf tin (less than 5 inches wide!) for the final rise and then in the oven to bake. Much lighter, no problem with the rise. I've had some record loaves!!

Hi Loadsabob, what you are doing sounds great, .... just wondered if you have ever tried the "starter doughs" technique... which might be less time consuming and might produce different results. There is a whole chapter in one of my bread books about this, apparently its the secret to good ciabatta bread (which I really want to make) honey and beer rye bread etc! You make up a a small amount of "dough" or "sponge" in the machine using the dough cycle and then leave it to develop overnight. You then use this "ready-made dough" again in your normal bread recipe in your breadmaker. Just wondered if you had ever done it that way?

I am working my way through my bread book and as we speak have mixture of wholemeal and milk rolls rising in my kitchen (a swiss recipe called a partybrot) unfortunately they won't be ready for lunch :doh:

Mega

Edit: only posted this because from your post it sounded as if you are putting exactly the same dough through the bread machine twice - sorry if this is not the case

Something else I just thought of, if your are heating the bread pan, wouldn't it also be useful to warm the flour either in the oven or using some other method...... my breadmaker spends the first hour or so just warming up all the ingredients and I have never had a dense wholemeal/granary loaf...... I also always add white flour to my mix.

Curry_Queen · 31 May 2005 at 2:09PM

Loadsabob wrote:

First off, the problem with wholewheat bread not rising properly in machines (mine was always ridiculously flat and dense!). The writer explained that wholewheat bread needs a tin NO WIDER then 5 inches. Any wider, and it will fail to rise fully. I checked, and mine is just a little too wide to make that climb, it seems.

This is rather interesting, but doesn't actually tie in with my own experiences!

My old Breville has a pan which is roughly 5"x5" yet I failed on every attempt to make a decent loaf of granary/wholeweat, and like yours it came out sunk and stodgy, which is what prompted me to buy the Panasonic in the end. Now that has a pan size of just over 5"x7" yet my granary bread now comes out perfect every time

The only difference I can see between the two are the programme timings (apart from pan size) and the Panasonic takes much longer, plus has a "rest" time before even starting mixing/kneading to allow everything to reach an ambient temperature first. I think your idea of starting the dough process first then going back to wholeweat programme is a very good idea, although I've not tried it myself.

Magentasue · 31 May 2005 at 2:48PM

The Panasonic mixes faster than my old breadmaker and the dough is different - silkier. I notice this when I make rolls and use the dough program.

Loadsabob · 31 May 2005 at 2:57PM

megasaver wrote:

.... just wondered if you have ever tried the "starter doughs" technique... which might be less time consuming and might produce different results. There is a whole chapter in one of my bread books about this, apparently its the secret to good ciabatta bread (which I really want to make) honey and beer rye bread etc! You make up a a small amount of "dough" or "sponge" in the machine using the dough cycle and then leave it to develop overnight. You then use this "ready-made dough" again in your normal bread recipe in your breadmaker. Just wondered if you had ever done it that way?

Something else I just thought of, if your are heating the bread pan, wouldn't it also be useful to warm the flour either in the oven or using some other method...... my breadmaker spends the first hour or so just warming up all the ingredients and I have never had a dense wholemeal/granary loaf...... I also always add white flour to my mix.

I haven't tried a starter, no. I think they achieve different things, as the starters tend to be used as raising agents I think? I know in the book I have, using the starter will at some point remove the need for yeast...one day I'll get round to it! Yes, I do put the same machine through twice. That's just so that there is more time kneading and rising, which I think helps the dough.

Ah - yes, heating the flour. Funny you mention that, I have always heated the flour when following Delia's recipe, but haven't actually done that when making it in the machine. Good point, I think that would be a good idea as well as pre-heating the pan.

A bit of white flour always works for me, but I'm determined to make the perfect loaf with 100% wholewheat, too!

There's a lot of trial and error involved, isn't there?!

Loadsabob · 31 May 2005 at 3:03PM

Curry_Queen wrote:

This is rather interesting, but doesn't actually tie in with my own experiences!

My old Breville has a pan which is roughly 5"x5" yet I failed on every attempt to make a decent loaf of granary/wholeweat, and like yours it came out sunk and stodgy, which is what prompted me to buy the Panasonic in the end. Now that has a pan size of just over 5"x7" yet my granary bread now comes out perfect every time

Well, whatever the reason, it sounds as though you've got it sussed!! I understand that grannary isn't as heavy as "wholewheat", which may be the difference, though it sounds as though you use both. It's the 100% wholewheat that is causing me problems. I've seen a lot of grannary with some white flour in, which will help.

I think your Panasonic is probably just so good that it gets around the usual problems - I'm impressed! And one day I WILL have one!!

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