Act now on mis-sold endowments: new article

I love the way Mrhelpfull posts a quote of everything you say when he gives a response - it lets you have your say twice and doubly exposes the nonsensical responses for just that - nonsensical.

dunstonh I am a bit suprised at you really - jumping on his bandwagon - you have said yourself before that these things were missold by tied agents etc and now you are having what - a lapse of memory - a bout of overexitement - what? Or is that a wooden spoon in your hand?

I quote you here addressing Mrhelpful
"Do you not find it frustating that you mention that some claims are fraudulent that certain individuals then twist that to make out we say they all are. Or that because some were mis-sold that they all were."

If you find the bit where I say they were all missold - I will find the one where you say they are all fraudulent - that might be easier if I just search Mrhelpfuls posts.

You knew about stocks and shares - you are not the average man/woman in the street. Untill Mrs Thatcher tried to turn us all in to share holders the stock market was an exclusive place that did not cater to the hoi poloi of which I count myself. I cannot imagine you just knew about these things one day when you found yourself in possession of a few waterboard shares dunstonh. I imagine you had to have some training - exams even. I cannot say I spent my time in the 1990's consulting the financial pages of any newspaper and if it was on the television I must have been feeding the children at the time - I don't recall the radio or any other 'media' explaining the advantages of an endowment over repayment and mine wasn't noticeably cheaper either.

I did study economics but somehow I missed the bit where they told me that if ever I bought an Endowment Policy it would be invested on the stock market and it might not pay my mortgage. I also had this weird idea that a With Profits policy was connected to the profits of the CIS who had sold it to me - and I knew they divided all their money with their customers as they do not have shareholders - I am sure you will remember the spiel. Sounds ridiculous now - regardless of your opinion I know I am reasonably intelligent but without the salesperson telling me the risks of my purchases I honestly had no idea. I don't believe that I am an exception to any rule either - where I went others had been before and would go after.

I am sure it is comforting to blame the victim but it is a delusion let me assure you - we are not alone. Funnily enough apart from you and Mrhelpfull dunstonh - we are not overwhelmed by people agreeing with your position on this thread. It is time you and Mrhelpful accepted the truth, dealt with it and moved on. That is what we are having to do. Join the club.

mayb wrote: »

II did study economics but somehow I missed the bit where they told me that if ever I bought an Endowment Policy it would be invested on the stock market and it might not pay my mortgage. I also had this weird idea that a With Profits policy was connected to the profits of the CIS who had sold it to me - and I knew they divided all their money with their customers as they do not have shareholders -

Its all coming out now. You studied economice and thought that a companies profits never fell. Now you have admitted you thought it was linked to a company (even a non stockmarket one) and yet you had no idea there could be a risk associated with it. Your economics training would have shown a single company is more risky than a collection of companies. Im not so sure you were that ignorant after all when it comes to risk.
What do you think Dunston? Selective memory strikes again. You might have got the wrong end of the stick but you were not that far off.

Interesting quote from a link posted on another thread.

Today many of the life companies responsible for the endowment scandal are desperately trying to limit their potential exposure to loss, as a result of compensation claims being won in the favour of their poorly informed customers. Following talks with life insurance companies that offer endowment mortgages, the Financial Services Authority (FSA) has put in place an extraordinary procedure that “time-bars” complaints regarding miss sold endowment policies, if they are made after a specific date. This is currently being questioned on ethical grounds through the Financial ombudsman Service (FOS) by endowment claim handlers.

I am not totally alone then -more power to the endowment claim handlers - it will be really funny if I end up cheering for the FOS but can't see it happening somehow.

I do not disagree with you about the cold calling companies but these are a minority too. If I was at risk of being time barred or already had been and didn't know how to deal with my situation - I would rather use a claims company than miss the opportunity of redress altogether.

I can also understand your need for the adverse affects of missales on innocent brokers to disappear - you should not let that blind you to the fact that these things did get missold on a large scale and many people will never receive redress for that fact because of time bars and self interest of financial institutions.

"When something does so well for so long, then the perception of risk gets watered down. Its common in every day life things as well. Endowments suffered that. 30 odd years of paying big surpluses brought about the mindset of it never failing."

However, dunstonh this explains why some salespeople carried on with the sales - it does not prove that the customer knew how this came about. They were told buy this and you will get this and this - not buy this and if everything goes on as it has in the past you will get this and this. It does not explain why they were sold after they had started to fail and it certainly does not explain why the customers bought them after they started to fail if, as you suggest,they understood the risks involved.

I also believe that the sales people themselves did not always understand the policies they sold or how they worked and were not in a position to explain this to their customer. Mrhelpful would be a prime example if he had been involved.

I believe if the number of claims is falling now it is because of the time bar imposition. I would also say that if you were missold your policy but unsure what the final outcome of the policy was going to be, you may rightly hedge your bets. The aim is to salvage as much as possible from the missale - that may be by claiming redress, but if the result of leaving it in place is that it will pay off your mortgage then that after all is why you bought it and little will be gained by cashing it in. You have posted on this yourself more than once. If this starts to look unlikely again then it may be a better option to pursue a claim. The thing was not less missold because you now understand the consequences of your purchase and act according to the circumstances prevailing.

dunstonh wrote: »

Yes I do. Cheaper monthly payments. Historically paid out large surpluses. Media and consumers association and other consumer bodies saying they were a good thing.

As I have said before. They were the buy to let of their time. Everyone thought they would always make money from them. Until it goes wrong.... Hindsight is wonderful.

Sorry Dunston but I just don't believe it. The vast majority of people in this country are not gamblers. Their money goes no further than a building society account where they know it is safe. The great Thatcher con about share ownership has been played out now too. Ask "Sid" how many ordinary people still hold on to British Gas and BT shares?. Are you also trying to say that buy to let mortgages have oustripped or are even close to the number of endowments sold? Also a typical buy to letter has equity built up in the first property which they believe will cushion them if it all goes pear shaped. They bear no resemblance to a typical "first time buyer". Or are you trying to say that most first time buyers also take out a buy to let mortgage at the same time in the hope of paying off their principle mortgage?, it's tosh!

Regards Vinno