Using multiple brokers to obtain the best mortgage

Arch-Angel wrote:

Hear Hear!

Whilst my feeling about kenshaz are well known, I do see his point. I've got Martin's book (which led me to this site). Martin's arguement, regarding using one or more broker's to get the best advice before going to L&C to complete is a reasonably sound money saving tactic. If I can get several brokers - who would charge me if I completed with them - to do the work, pick out the best mortgage for me, then I run to L&C to complete for free with them...yeah, it does save you money. (BTW - on my copy of Martin's book this advice starts at p.269 - just in case other have a different printing).

However, I can also understand the reaction from brokers who have their time stolen from them. I haven't read any "reaction" thread on the topic before MM - before my time perhaps? - but my immediate thought is one of moral grounds. Is it morally sound to get one over a small local broker?

Martin's philosophy is one of "get one back over the big companies that are screwing you over" - I wouldn't include small brokers in that. Bigger brokers? Yes.... but if the "bigger broker" is also fee's free - which can also apply to small one-man (or woman!) broker firms - you gain nothing from this tactic.

To me this is all about morality - I wouldn't like to do 10 hours work for someone only for them to take my work without me getting paid for it! Do unto others and all that...:D

Thanks Arch Angel its nice to see an unbiased view, however, whilst I do see SOME point in Kenshaz's quote of Martin Lewis's advice, I can tell you from a brokers point of view that its soul destroying when you do 10 hours work for a client on the basis of fee's free (which obviously should involve mutual trust and respect) and then they either go direct, or go to another fee's free broker.

Most brokers are self employed andI'd bet 90% of us (me included) work at least 60-70 hours a week and because we work for commission only we have to manage our time very effectively and squeeze every bit of work we can out of our time to make a respectable living. Its happened to me on a number of occassions, and to be honest at times it makes you feel very angry. The larger firms can cope with losing 2 out of every 10 cases to timewasters, but the smaller ones cannot. So whilst I do support the whole concept of moneysaving, I would put an emphasis on moneysaving with morals!

tomstickland wrote:

Luckily the toilet seat maintainance industry follows a much more trust based idiom.

I'm going to smother you with domestos before long tom.

MortgageMamma wrote:

Thanks Arch Angel its nice to see an unbiased view, however, whilst I do see SOME point in Kenshaz's quote of Martin Lewis's advice, I can tell you from a brokers point of view that its soul destroying when you do 10 hours work for a client on the basis of fee's free (which obviously should involve mutual trust and respect) and then they either go direct, or go to another fee's free broker.

That's how I would imagine it would feel! I understand the argument of not paying for a broker if you can - if they are getting the commission from the mortgage company. However, basing a decision solely on price is not always the best strategy - I "know a bit" about computers, but it does not mean that letting me fix your PC for £20 is a better deal than using a company that charges £80...particularly if I end up making things worse!!!

"Shopping for a broker" is more important IMO - I for one don't want to deal with a broker who is more concerned about getting me to take up their insurance products than finding me the best deal on a mortgage. Also the broker that I choose - when the time comes! :eek: - really needs to be prepared for lots of silly question!!

Moved over from the Interest Free thread

Originally Posted by kenshaz
The consumer comes first and the ethics are shop around then use the most advantageous ,that is what the above quote states,what is wrong with L&C and Charcol ,is it because they are competition and do not post on this site,on the mortgage forum,brilliant firms with high reputations ,can that be said of all

Large firms such as the likes of the ones you mention are not competition at all to a small local brokerage.

L&C for example will not accept clients for Agreement In Principles and will only deal with you once you have found a property and have offered or you are re-mortgaging. They have also received a fair amount of negative feedback for their customer service on these forums. I also know for a fact that they have a high staff turnover.

They operate a completely different business model, phone based, non AIP etc, thus are no competition at all to a smaller local brokerage where the individual or parnter in the firm has considerable knowledge and experience and offer a far more 'personalised' face to face traditional service.

There is a place in the market for both business models, neither are right for everyone hence the suggestion to seek a local brokerage also.

I personally do not consider any of the above mentioned firms to be any competition whatsoever to my firm, as I have an unblemished extensive Financial services track record and an excellent local reputation for my work. Both as a mortgage broker and previous to that as an IFA.

Seriously guys and girls, I have read both threads and wonder how much you have all had to drink tonight!!!

Kenshaz is quoting the advice that Martin gives in his book as well as in
Sneakily get the best advice for free plus possible extra cashback. We have all debated this many, many times before, not least in one of the very first threads I contributed to; but Martin's advice still stands.

Martin has clarified his position in this sticky Martins View On Using Mortgage Brokers... , so none of has any reason to feel undermined by the advice he gives.

Kenshaz actually suggested using the services of the 'big boys' to do the shopping around, and I for one believe that they are big enough to cope with kenshaz's advice to MSE'ers.

IMO, Martin only actually advises people to not use the services of a broker that charges a fee. For those of us who do charge a fee, the responsibilty lies with you to ensure that a customer understands the benefit that they get from paying a fee and using us.

I have always had a problem with people shopping round in this industry, always will.

Worst was when Iworked in an Estate Agent with 6 agency based advisers within 2 minutes walk. We all used to nick business off eachother - and take great pleasure in it.

MSE does not threaten our livliehood - I am not sure how many of my customers or prospects even know this thing exists before I tell them!!!

Experience has taught me how to sniff out a timewaster in most cases - sometimes I get it wrong, but most of the time I either win them over with my good looks and emotional blackmail or very politley tell them that I would need more commitment from them to use me before I gave them anything more than a 20 min general chat. If they walk away, fine - I'll spend the time more constructively.

Kenshaz

You are very quickly coming across as a 'broker basher' and seem to take great pleasure in telling those of us who post here not only as 'professionals', but also as MSE'ers, that the site is not for us.

The fact that you fail to see how this (and your inability to accept that your comments may need additional clarification to be of real benefit to the OP) really does diminish the effect of what are,sometimes, very valid points.

If you'd had the grace to concede that there are downsides to contacting too many brokers (unneccsary credit searches, conflicting advice to the novice etc) I would have been with you all the way.

There is nothing wrong with shopping around, but to say "shop around and then go the L&C" is within the letter of what Martin says, but not the spirit. Martin is concerned with saving people broker fees when he gives this advice and does not have any objection to people using the services of a local fees free broker - see his 'brokers are the good guys' comment.

Therefore, a more accurate way to interpret the advice could be to say "get advice from a couple of places, but always place your mortgage through a fees free broker. L&C if you are happy deaing remotely, a local firm if you want face to face advice with more of a personal touch"

Just my opinion, but I have spent this evening seperating a 2 and 5 year old (intent on nicking bacon butties from eachother) and could not help but think how familiar this all looked :rotfl: :beer: