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  • FIRST POST
    • Rvnxchn
    • By Rvnxchn 16th May 19, 11:29 AM
    • 10Posts
    • 8Thanks
    Rvnxchn
    Civil enforcement LTD claim form issued- really confused!!
    • #1
    • 16th May 19, 11:29 AM
    Civil enforcement LTD claim form issued- really confused!! 16th May 19 at 11:29 AM
    Hello everyone,

    I have read countless threads and I am really struggling on what information is correct/what procedure to follow.

    Last year July I parked in a private land car park outside KFC. I registered by phone and gave my full details of the car and time I was staying over the phone and from there on truly believed I had made payment and was authorised to park.

    Until I received a fine sent to my house. I was really confused. I then realised I received a text on that day after I signed up over phone to pay for the parking that they wanted additional confirmation of my number plate to authorise parking. I didnít read this believing it was just a confirmation of payment text.

    Anyway they keep harassing me and my family with countless letters, I have simply ignored everyone knowing I have not mislead the company or done anything dishonestly and from my perspective did whatever was in my control to pay.

    However, after ignoring all letters I have now been issued a country court claim form, from Northampton and absolutely baffled that they are charging me £300 for a session which I was only intended to pay £3.

    Being a law student, I really cannot afford to have a CCJ against me as this can affect my career. Although I know they are scammers and they are doing this to many other people, I really need the right advice on what to do next.
    Is this claim form legit? It is not officially signed and nor has a legit stamp of the country court and the coat of arms is a copy and paste job.

    Could you help me with this, I have read the newbies thread but so confused as to what to follow and what to issue. Please please help, my dad is the registered driver on the vehicle and I feel terrible these letters are being issued in his name

    I would be so grateful for the help, my family are distressed and although I am not because I know they are scammers. I need some advice.

    Thanks

    R.C
Page 1
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 16th May 19, 12:07 PM
    • 4,785 Posts
    • 4,257 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    • #2
    • 16th May 19, 12:07 PM
    • #2
    • 16th May 19, 12:07 PM
    If it came from Northampton County Court Business Centre it is legit. As a law student you should know that you only get a CCJ if you appear in court, are found against and fail to pay in the specified time.


    For now, go to the NEWBIE thread post # 2 and see what you have to do next (AoS to buy yourself maximum time and then, having read the example defences, construct a defence.) If you post the issue date of the claim form, KeithP will be along to inform you of the timescales you have for submitting the AoS and your defence.
    • Rvnxchn
    • By Rvnxchn 16th May 19, 12:16 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Rvnxchn
    • #3
    • 16th May 19, 12:16 PM
    • #3
    • 16th May 19, 12:16 PM
    Thanks for replying.

    Yeah I know that, just do not wish to strike out the possibility of this occurring so hoping to take efficient steps before hand.

    I am going to file AOS, as it is Civil Enforcement does the same procedure apply with using moneyclaim website?

    Thanks again
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 16th May 19, 12:23 PM
    • 23,336 Posts
    • 37,170 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #4
    • 16th May 19, 12:23 PM
    • #4
    • 16th May 19, 12:23 PM
    Thanks for replying.

    Yeah I know that, just do not wish to strike out the possibility of this occurring so hoping to take efficient steps before hand.

    I am going to file AOS, as it is Civil Enforcement does the same procedure apply with using moneyclaim website?

    Thanks again
    Originally posted by Rvnxchn
    How you deal with this, as you are now in the court process, is covered, step by step (with some pictures), in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2.

    Use that as your Bible from here on (perhaps supplemented by your course books/notes).

    Why not use this upcoming experience as a college project and in the process educate your fellow students (even your Law tutors) how these scam tickets can be avoided or otherwise, if necessary, beaten.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • bargepole
    • By bargepole 16th May 19, 12:27 PM
    • 2,581 Posts
    • 7,436 Thanks
    bargepole
    • #5
    • 16th May 19, 12:27 PM
    • #5
    • 16th May 19, 12:27 PM
    Being a law student, I really cannot afford to have a CCJ against me as this can affect my career. Although I know they are scammers and they are doing this to many other people, I really need the right advice on what to do next.
    Is this claim form legit? It is not officially signed and nor has a legit stamp of the country court and the coat of arms is a copy and paste job.
    Originally posted by Rvnxchn
    You claim to be a law student, but must have missed or slept through most of the lectures. These are the sort of naÔve questions that someone with no legal knowledge whatsoever would ask.

    I have been providing assistance, including Lay Representation at Court hearings (current score: won 36, lost 11), to defendants in parking cases for over 5 years. I have an LLB (Hons) degree, and am a Graduate member of CILEx, studying towards a Fellowship (equivalent to solicitor) in Civil Litigation. However, any advice given on these forums by me is NOT formal legal advice, and I accept no liability for its accuracy.
    • Rvnxchn
    • By Rvnxchn 16th May 19, 12:28 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Rvnxchn
    • #6
    • 16th May 19, 12:28 PM
    • #6
    • 16th May 19, 12:28 PM
    Thank-you for responding!

    I definitely agree, I think if I can join forces it is one area of law we can shed more awareness around. Especially harder for those who give in and pay the fine because of threatening and abusive letters that constantly come through the door.

    Hope it is something I can beat.
    • Rvnxchn
    • By Rvnxchn 16th May 19, 12:33 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Rvnxchn
    • #7
    • 16th May 19, 12:33 PM
    • #7
    • 16th May 19, 12:33 PM
    There is really no need to be this rude when I am merely reaching out for help. This is not our area of expertise unfortunately and I have certainly not reached that far into my degree where I know absolutely everything. Be kind.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th May 19, 1:01 PM
    • 71,912 Posts
    • 84,326 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 16th May 19, 1:01 PM
    • #8
    • 16th May 19, 1:01 PM
    bargepole qualified in law in recent years, at a time in life when most people are thinking of retirement, so he calls a spade a spade (you will get used to it and he is a legend on this forum). He knows his stuff.

    You will likely win this. As well as the NEWBIES thread, read other CEL defence threads by searching for these keywords (I include the word 'true' to find actual defence drafts):

    Civil Enforcement defence true



    HOW TO USE THE FORUM SEARCH FUNCTION:

    Hit your 'Back' button to get back to the forum thread list.

    On the bar just above the threads you'll see the 'Search' function (not at the top of the page, you are not searching the whole of MSE).

    Click on the 'Advanced Search' button and on the following page place your keyword(s) in the 'Search By Keyword(s)' and make sure the 'Show Results As' button (at the foot of the window) is changed from 'Threads' to 'Posts'.

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th May 19, 1:58 PM
    • 22,461 Posts
    • 28,473 Thanks
    Redx
    • #9
    • 16th May 19, 1:58 PM
    • #9
    • 16th May 19, 1:58 PM
    judging by your initial post , its full of fiction , so I have gleaned these facts from your "story"

    your DAD is not the Registered Driver (no such thing), your DAD is the Registered Keeper (RK), as HIS name is listed on the V5C

    YOU did not receive the pcn (the fine as you call it) - your DAD did

    YOU have not received the subsequent letters, your DAD received them

    this court claim is legit, BUT its not in your name , its in your DAD`s name , so legally its got nothing to do with you

    YOU can help him, but only HE should do the AOS and only HE can submit the defence etc

    it is your DAD that is being taken to court and HE must attend

    it is not YOU that may get the CCJ, it is your DAD, if the paperwork is in HIS name

    YOU can help HIM to deal with it, but you cannot just step in and take the reins, its not your name on the paperwork, its his , so stop and think about it

    surely as a law student you understand these basics ? I know I do and I have never studied law , you keep saying I , where there is no I , its my dad , my dad , or the RK etc (and now the DEFENDANT , which is your dad, not you)

    so if you are going to help, help him and get everything done in HIS name, providing it is HIS name on the paperwork

    email a SAR to the CEL DPO in your fathers name using his email address , with a copy of HIS V5C attached

    do the AOS in HIS NAME, online (not in your name)

    then start drafting the defence for your father to submit to the court by email

    what is the ISSUE DATE on the top right of the N1 ?


    (use this as a learning exercise in the law)
    Last edited by Redx; 16-05-2019 at 2:16 PM. Reason: spelling + more info
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th May 19, 2:16 PM
    • 71,912 Posts
    • 84,326 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Well spotted, Redx. This can't be true:
    after ignoring all letters I have now been issued a country court claim form
    ...and I'm sure the OP realises, due to studying contract law modules, that this is his Dad's case to defend and the driver can't just reply now!

    You can't just assume liability when you are not the Defendant and nor can you get it changed (too late - you COULD have done, earlier). The OP can't respond in his name, not even to do the AOS, as he is not party to this claim.

    The driver could be a witness of course, and can accompany Dad to the hearing, and could be the person who explains to the Judge why Dad can't be held liable, if you can find holes in the CEL case, when compared to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 16-05-2019 at 2:20 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 16th May 19, 2:42 PM
    • 12,999 Posts
    • 13,329 Thanks
    The Deep
    Being a law student, I really cannot afford to have a CCJ against me as this can affect my career

    Why should you get a CCJ, you only get one after losing in court and ignoring the judgement.

    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams and will fail in court so complain to your MP.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 16th May 19, 2:46 PM
    • 4,785 Posts
    • 4,257 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Things I wish I hadn't said in my OP: -
    Being a law student.........
    Having given you a hard time OP, be aware that the regulars will still support you by critiquing your (Dad's) defence and witness statement (when the time comes) and pointing you in the right direction - although you will be sent back to NEWBIE post # 2 on a regular basis as that is your bible.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th May 19, 2:51 PM
    • 22,461 Posts
    • 28,473 Thanks
    Redx
    as a law student the OP will need to develop thicker skin for when they get involved in trials or court cases, especially when dealing with judges etc

    they will also need to learn to research the facts and not be using words like "MY , ME , MYSELF & I" which were the first hints that the story was false

    the OP has not received ANY letters in his or her name IMHO , nor in anybody elses name EXCEPT the fathers name, just the father, nobody else

    the father has, the father is in the frame and the father could well be going to court

    if the father fails to pay the judgment within say one month following a loss , it is the father that will have the CCJ, not the offspring (the child will not receive any legal punishments etc as their name is not on any paperwork)

    this OP needs to wake up , smell the coffeee and then once they learn who is who in this saga they can get the father to do the AOS and the SAR email and then the OP can write the defence on behalf of their father and post it for critique

    critique is something they will get used to in their law career , so best start now
    Last edited by Redx; 16-05-2019 at 2:54 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Rvnxchn
    • By Rvnxchn 16th May 19, 3:03 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Rvnxchn
    I really donít understand why you have all decided to critique my post as though it was written to appease you. This is not a demonstration of my knowledge, nor is this a reflection of how I would react in a court of law. Considering the fact that I am very much likely to be 20 years younger and intact less experienced than those who are commenting. Not only that but me proclaiming I am a law student does not give anyone the right to criticise me on the way I have written an informal internet post. I only reached out for help and next time I will find better luck elsewhere. I am inexperienced in this field and hence why I needed the support. I am really disappointed that this was the response. I have thick skin but this was unnecessary. Thanks anyway.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th May 19, 3:42 PM
    • 22,461 Posts
    • 28,473 Thanks
    Redx
    its not the inexperience we have objected to, its the lies and as a law student you should have known better because YOU have not received any of the paperwork, despite saying that you have received it

    I have rewritten post #1 for you to remove the lies and the falsehoods and the irrelevant , so this is more like what should have been said in post #1 (because you clearly havent a clue)


    Hello everyone,

    I have read countless threads and I am really struggling on what information is correct/what procedure to follow.

    Last year July THE DRIVER parked in a private land car park outside KFC. THEY registered by phone and gave THEIR full details of the car and time THEY WERE staying over the phone and from there on truly believed THEY had made payment and was authorised to park.

    Until THE REGISTERED KEEPER received a fine sent to THEIR house. THEY WERE really confused. THEY then realised THE DRIVER received a text on that day after THE DRIVER signed up over phone to pay for the parking that they wanted additional confirmation of THE number plate to authorise parking. THE DRIVER didn’t read this believing it was just a confirmation of payment text.

    Anyway they keep harassing THE REGISTERED KEEPER with countless letters, THEY have simply ignored everyone knowing THE DRIVER HAD not mislead the company or done anything dishonestly and from THEIR perspective did whatever was in THEIR control to pay.

    However, after ignoring all letters THE REGISTERED KEEPER HAS now been issued a county court claim form, from Northampton and absolutely baffled that they are charging THEM £300 for a session which THE DRIVER was only intended to pay £3.

    Being a law student MYSELF, THE DEFENDANT really cannot afford to have a CCJ against THEM

    Although I know they are scammers and they are doing this to many other people, I really need the right advice on what to do next TO HELP THE DEFENDANT.

    Is this claim form legit? It is not officially signed and nor has a legit stamp of the country court and the coat of arms is a copy and paste job.

    Could you help me with this, I have read the newbies thread but so confused as to what to follow and what to issue. Please please help, my dad is the registered KEEPER on the vehicle and I feel terrible these letters are being issued in his name AND I WISH TO HELP HIM THROUGH THIS MATTER TO THE END

    I would be so grateful for the help, my family are distressed and although I am not because I know they are scammers. I need some advice.

    Thanks

    R.C
    Originally posted by Rvnxchn
    see the key differences ? as in who was the driver , who was the registered keeper , who was receiving all the harassment and letters and who is the actual defendant

    if you fail to understand these basics then you also will fail to help the defendant in this matter , yet you have made this all about you , which is selfish when you consider that you have left your father in the frame for this and you have nothing to fear about this saga except the wrath of your father (and yes I am a father and yes we do pay for the sins of the children , even if they are being sc@mmed)

    lose the attitude and learn from this saga because so far you have not done anything correctly, possibly dropping your father in it due to your ignorance of this topic, instead of seeking advice much sooner, where it was easier to advise you and your father

    you will get help here if you furnish us with facts and not fiction

    you were asked for the ISSUE DATE, you never mentioned it, you just wallowed in self pity

    so I ask again , what is the ISSUE DATE on the N1 form issued to your father ? (and please confirm that your father is the defendant in this matter, not you)
    Last edited by Redx; 16-05-2019 at 3:46 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th May 19, 3:43 PM
    • 71,912 Posts
    • 84,326 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Please do come back, as this is important:
    You can't just assume liability when you are not the Defendant and nor can you get it changed (too late - you COULD have done, earlier). The OP can't respond in his name, not even to do the AOS, as he is not party to this claim.

    The driver could be a witness of course, and can accompany Dad to the hearing, and could be the person who explains to the Judge why Dad can't be held liable, if you can find holes in the CEL case, when compared to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.
    I really meant it - you can probably find issues regarding full compliance re 'keeper liability' law - the POFA - but your Dad must defend the case because he didn't transfer liability before court action commenced. It is too late to do that now but he has a defence.

    I think we were amazed you didn't realise a Defendant has to defend, and ONLY that person, not another family member not named on the claim form, that's all.

    Don't go too far away from this forum, as we see 99% wins on this forum and there is nowhere else to touch that record, and no other knowledge like we have here, between us, specialising in private parking law.

    This will be good practice for you (genuinely, it is an interesting twist on contract law that a keeper can be liable, but only if the PPC gets the POFA right).

    I will find better luck elsewhere.
    We will support you, I promise.

    Whatever you do, DO NOT EVEN THINK about paying an appeals company....TrustPilot is always worth checking first...frying pan and fire, spring to mind.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 16-05-2019 at 3:47 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Rvnxchn
    • By Rvnxchn 16th May 19, 4:08 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Rvnxchn
    In no way would I allow my father to take any accountability for this. The fact you think I have made this all about me is ridiculous, the reason I have reached out is because my father is the registered keeper and I do not want him to be affected by this under ANY circumstance.

    I have absolutely no attitude I am just responded to the sheer about of bullying on this forum when all I needed was support and advice. Instead, I was shred apart for genuine errors in my post (which I mentioned earlier I am clearly inexperienced in this field). When I started the post, I did not claim that I knew what I was talking about and like I said at the very core of my law degree, so most of this is waffle to me until I begin to obtain deeper experience and knowledge in different modules.

    As a father yourself, I am very certain you would dislike anyone talking to your child like this over the internet.

    The issue date is the 14th May 2019, that was genuinely bi-passed, I did not purposely ignore. There is one thing having thick skin and another dealing with unnecessary bullying.

    I tried my best to reach out and cannot believe the response. I have seen other blog posts where OP has been helped out genuinely, however because I disclosed I am a law student everyone has decided to criticise me instead.

    The letters have been received in my fathers name, however I have been on the receiving end because he opens and I keep them, we have discussed this as an issue but as he has had a similar experience in the past where he ignored until they stopped, he supported me in doing the same. That has been clarified. Also my father being the defendant has been confirmed.
    • Rvnxchn
    • By Rvnxchn 16th May 19, 4:18 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Rvnxchn
    P.s - I understand from your point of view due to the way my post was written, however I was aware of this. I would have been filing AOS and further matters under my fathers name.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th May 19, 4:21 PM
    • 22,461 Posts
    • 28,473 Thanks
    Redx
    sorry but you dont get a free pass because you should have had some idea on what to say and where you have posted falsehoods above

    yes we know the background because I deduced that after reading your first post and I said so in my initial reply , I have since amended post #1 to include correct facts and stop the driver being identified

    because your fathers name is on the court document , he is now legally liable and you cannot assume that responsibility any more (but you can help him)

    he is in the dock for this and you cannot assume the responsibility

    had you come here last july or even before the N1 form was issued you would have received excellent advice that could have helped him or removed him from any future court claim , but now that this N1 form has been issued to him you can no longer get him out of this mess other than by paying in full or helping him to win

    if he loses HE will have to pay circa £200 or more within one month of the CCJ issued by the judge on the trial day or he will have a CCJ in his name (not your name)

    there were a few avenues open if you had come here earlier, but now its either pay up , IN FULL, asap , or your father must defend the court claim against him, which he may still lose, in which case he needs to pay the judgment promptly, in fulll

    my question to you is what part are you playing in this saga ? lay rep ? mckenzie friend ? are you accompanying him on the court day and assisting him by representing him ? (in which case both of you must go)

    its too late to name the driver, too late for popla , too late for most remedies

    the criticism is to make you open your eyes and see what a mess this is due to doing nothing until now, plus you seem to think you can just take over for him, whereas you can only do the donkey work, he must deal with this , even if you direct him

    if he loses in court , HE must pay the judgment within one month of the judgment or else HE will have a CCJ (you stated you cannot have a CCJ in your name, this wont happen to you because the defendant is not you , so your career is unaffected either way)

    until you learn the basics you wont be of use to him and we cannot talk to him to help him, hence we are going through you but you are blinkered and cannot see the wood for the trees (yet)

    I hope you realise that the inaction has caused this to get to a court case, plus you cannot take this on yourself, but you can and should assist

    being a law student means you had 9 months to research this and help him, yet nothing has been done so far, hence my wrath as a father who has managed to get 2 of my 3 sons out of similar jams by early intervention to stop their tickets getting to this point (except I wasnt in the frame at all, they were)

    an MCOL isnt just about parking tickets, most are about rent and landlords etc (and some are about shoddy workmanship, faulty goods and poor service)
    Last edited by Redx; 16-05-2019 at 4:27 PM. Reason: spelling
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 16th May 19, 4:22 PM
    • 12,999 Posts
    • 13,329 Thanks
    The Deep

    In no way would I allow my father to take any accountability for this.


    You have no choice, it is your father who is being sued. It is your father who failed to name the driver, he must attend court, the only alternative is to pay the scammer.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
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