Pension info relating to divorce

fluffpot · 14 November 2018 at 9:09PM

Hello everyone

I hope a pension person might be able to give me a it of advice?
A close friend is going through a rough divorce (kids involved etc) and her soon to be ex is not providing much info on his pensions. She has statements for two small pots. The statements say

"This statement is for your Formerly Protected Rights pension pot only. You will receive a separate statements for your Non Protected Rights pension pot"

Am I right in thinking that the statements she has are for SERPs only? (which is why they are small) and the larger employers pension is the one referred to as Non Protected Rights? (statements not provided for these of course).
Or is this just standard wording for a statement - and there might not be any other statement (ie you could contract out, but not have another personal pension)

She has evidence he was paying a substantial sum each month into the employers pension.

Just trying to make sure she has all the info she's supposed to and the terminology is correct.

Thanks in advance. Posting also in the family/marriages/divorce section in case that's a better place

Fluff

Silvertabby · 14 November 2018 at 9:35PM

Is your friend just looking at copies of her ex's annual benefit statements? If so, these won't do for divorce proceedings.

He needs to specifically ask his pension provider for a transfer valuation for divorce purposes. His pension provider will then supply all the information needed on a Form E.

If he won't play ball, then your friend's solicitor needs to put pressure on his solicitor.

fluffpot · 14 November 2018 at 9:41PM

Hi Silvertabby
Thanks for the quick response. My friend has submitted everything as per (incluidng Form E and valuations) but her husband has not - it's like trying to get blood out of a stone. A half filled in Form E after 2 years and a 'few' statements is the best he can do. There's no way he's going to get a valuation!
So my question was around what we think are HIS missing pensions - see the wording in my OP
thanks
Fluff

PS There are no solicitors involved now - all the money got spend on trying to sort out the kids arrangements

He's ignored several court orders with penal notices attached - so you can see how much he's willing to to help

Silvertabby · 14 November 2018 at 9:52PM

fluffpot wrote: »

Hi Silvertabby
Thanks for the quick response. My friend has submitted everything as per (incluidng Form E and valuations) but her husband has not - it's like trying to get blood out of a stone. A half filled in Form E after 2 years and a 'few' statements is the best he can do. There's no way he's going to get a valuation!
So my question was around what we think are HIS missing pensions - see the wording in my OP
thanks
Fluff

Yes - I re-read your post and realised my mistake (have edited my post) - sorry, it's been a long day!.

A properly completed Form E is a legal requirement, but it's difficult if he is dragging his heels. Can only suggest that you friend goes down the solicitor route.

Does your friend know which company his pension fund is with? They won't give the information to her, but your friend's solicitor may be able to get the Court to order the information direct. I know it's money she hasn't budgeted for, but if he is trying to hide substantial pension benefits then it will probably be worth her while in the end.

crv1963 · 15 November 2018 at 9:20AM

If your friend really cannot afford a solicitor then advise that she seeks a McKenzie Friend by googling it in the first place and seeks advice and support in representing herself in court.

There are some UK divorce advice sites like dterry (google) and although it is stressful all round s=and easier said than done, try to detach herself from the emotional turmoil and concentrate on the practicalities, anger/ hurt/ upset only clouds the judgement of options and causes greater grief.

atush · 15 November 2018 at 1:16PM

There is a legal requirement for him to fully disclose his assets incl pension. He wont get a final divorce and financial break without it.

If she cannot get him to comply then she will have to go to court either representing herself or with a solicitor. Has she discussed mediation?

fluffpot · 15 November 2018 at 4:04PM

Hello everyone and thanksfor taking time to reply
Mediation was tried and this is why it’s now in court
We know the provider. I am acting as McKenzie friend, I’m not a lawyer obvs!
She’s not emotional, just wants it sorted now.
Last hearing was FDR, he was no show despite penal notice attached to this. Judge pretty peed off and pushed to go for final hearing next.
We asked him to issue Court Order giving my friend permission to contact ex’s pension providers, which he said he’d do, but the order isn’t quite this, it gives ex option to provide this himself... right, like that’s going to happen. Penal notice attached to this too.
I’m concerned that if ex is no show at final hearing and we still don’t have full picture she will loose out.
We are trying to get some legal,representation for final hearing, but it’s expensive £1,000s
She’s used wikivorce a bit for advice and CAB, but it’s different when you are in court! Some judges have been ok others are just horrible.
Is it possible for judge to make decision at final hearing even if not all assets are known? Like award 50%???

Thanks again

Silvertabby · 15 November 2018 at 5:04PM

fluffpot wrote: »

Hello everyone and thanksfor taking time to reply
Mediation was tried and this is why it’s now in court
We know the provider. I am acting as McKenzie friend, I’m not a lawyer obvs!
She’s not emotional, just wants it sorted now.
Last hearing was FDR, he was no show despite penal notice attached to this. Judge pretty peed off and pushed to go for final hearing next.
We asked him to issue Court Order giving my friend permission to contact ex’s pension providers, which he said he’d do, but the order isn’t quite this, it gives ex option to provide this himself... right, like that’s going to happen. Penal notice attached to this too.
I’m concerned that if ex is no show at final hearing and we still don’t have full picture she will loose out.
We are trying to get some legal,representation for final hearing, but it’s expensive £1,000s
She’s used wikivorce a bit for advice and CAB, but it’s different when you are in court! Some judges have been ok others are just horrible.
Is it possible for judge to make decision at final hearing even if not all assets are known? Like award 50%???

Thanks again

Difficult one. If he's set on 'hiding' some of his pension assets then no amount of penal notices will pursuade him otherwise.

I would urge that your friend does seek some form of legal representation, as any outlay now could be repaid in spades if the solicitor is able to obtain his full pension details.

I don't want to put the wind up your friend, but this is a case I dealt with when I was a LGPS administrator:

Neither party wanted the expense of a solicitor, and so went down the diy route.

The husband produced the Form E we had supplied - and the wife just assumed that it was 'right' as she knew that he had over 30 years of LGPS membership and which Local Authority he worked for. The Court ordered a 50/50 split of the pension benefits.

So far so good - except when we received the Court order specifying that 'The XXX Pension Fund etc' and produced pension figures for the wife, the amount was far,far less than she had been expecting.

Reality is that the bulk of his service had been with another Local Authority and, as he had opted to leave his benefits preserved in his old LGPS scheme, they weren't covered by the Court Order.

This could possibly have been identified and prevented if the wife's solicitor had requested estimates before the Court hearing.

xylophone · 15 November 2018 at 5:49PM

"This statement is for your Formerly Protected Rights pension pot only. You will receive a separate statements for your Non Protected Rights pension pot"

This would have resulted from contracting out on a money purchase pension pre 2012.

Protected rights were the benefits which a scheme, had to provide for members. Both occupational and personal pension schemes were able to contract-out on the money purchase basis.

A member’s protected rights were made up of, broadly speaking for occupational pension schemes, the amounts the employer saved as a result of reduced NI contributions and HMRC age-related rebates. Schemes contracted-out on the protected rights basis had to comply with various statutory conditions relating to protected rights.

Contracting out on the money purchase basis ended in 2012 and "protected rights" became ordinary pension rights.

This pension is quite possibly only one part of his pension provision.

He may well have other pensions in addition to this as well as a pension with his current employer.

Surely the court can order full disclosure of his assets?

fluffpot · 15 November 2018 at 9:09PM

Hello and thank you again for your replies. She doesn't want to agree to any split until she has the full picture, but we're at a loss as to how to get this, he's clearly but going to be honest.
Xylophone thanks for the explanation about the contracted out stuff, that's what I thought.

The court has ordered him to fully disclose. He's saying he has but evidence suggests otherwise. Really not clear how we/the court can force him to other than allowing my friend to contact his pension provider directly....

Thrugelmir · 15 November 2018 at 9:20PM

Find a no fee no win solicitor. Tie the ex up in knots.

Pension info relating to divorce

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