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  • FIRST POST
    • Toorop
    • By Toorop 7th Nov 18, 11:01 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Toorop
    Advice on job incident
    • #1
    • 7th Nov 18, 11:01 PM
    Advice on job incident 7th Nov 18 at 11:01 PM
    I work in a large retail store and recently had a new Manager start. One evening the Manager was on the phone discussing the store while walking around the shop floor and began bad mouthing and being critical of people and talking about getting rid them, "pushing" certain individuals out by name.

    This is a rather a new situation for me and I'm unsure of my position on whether this needs reporting or if this completely ok for the Manager to do although in my opinion completely unprofessional considering this was on the shop floor with both customers and staff to hear.

    I have requested and still waiting for a copy of the employee handbook to see what the process is.

    Considering the impact it will have on staff morale and the working environment, has any employment law been broken or is this a situation that should be dealt with internally if at all.

    Any advice welcome.
Page 1
    • jonnygee2
    • By jonnygee2 7th Nov 18, 11:18 PM
    • 444 Posts
    • 444 Thanks
    jonnygee2
    • #2
    • 7th Nov 18, 11:18 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Nov 18, 11:18 PM
    No law has been broken.But no large retail business tolerates this kind of thing. I think you should report it.

    If I were you I would write a detailed and entirely factual report of the incident to HR and ask it be kept it confidential. I would also give the names of any colleagues who can verify the incident took place (talk to them first!). Under no circumstances give it labels like 'unprofessional' and instead talk about the reaction from customers and the impact on the stores reputation. Make sure the email is professional, well written and concise.

    I can't see this coming back on you because there is absolutely no chance this is tolerable behaviour for a store. Doing this behind closed doors would be tacitly accepted in some companies and frowned upon in others. Doing it in front of customers, that obviously not how people run shops. I used to work in retail, someone who did this would have been fired from any of the places I worked in (there were certainly managers who were absolute ******s in the staffroom but that's completely different).

    He's new to the company, odds are he's fired very quickly.

    Of course, by reporting it you do expose yourself a little, but that's not always a bad thing. There's always a slim chance that senior management will side with him and turn on you, but I find that incredibly unlikely, and given your new manager is obviously incompetent you have a lot to gain from raising this.
    • Les79
    • By Les79 7th Nov 18, 11:29 PM
    • 574 Posts
    • 675 Thanks
    Les79
    • #3
    • 7th Nov 18, 11:29 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Nov 18, 11:29 PM
    What personal investment do you have in regards to this issue?
    • jonnygee2
    • By jonnygee2 7th Nov 18, 11:33 PM
    • 444 Posts
    • 444 Thanks
    jonnygee2
    • #4
    • 7th Nov 18, 11:33 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Nov 18, 11:33 PM
    What personal investment do you have in regards to this issue?
    Well, her (/his) new manager is an incompetent twit. This affects not only the staff but also the fortunes business which employs them. I'd call that investment!
    • Toorop
    • By Toorop 8th Nov 18, 12:37 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Toorop
    • #5
    • 8th Nov 18, 12:37 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Nov 18, 12:37 AM
    What personal investment do you have in regards to this issue?
    Originally posted by Les79

    My personal investment is that I work there and this incident is going to create a poor work environment if not dealt with soon. Gossiping has started and it's only a matter of time before it's on facebook if it isn't already and I would rather deal with it the correct way.
    • Toorop
    • By Toorop 8th Nov 18, 1:02 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Toorop
    • #6
    • 8th Nov 18, 1:02 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Nov 18, 1:02 AM
    No law has been broken.But no large retail business tolerates this kind of thing. I think you should report it.

    If I were you I would write a detailed and entirely factual report of the incident to HR and ask it be kept it confidential. I would also give the names of any colleagues who can verify the incident took place (talk to them first!). Under no circumstances give it labels like 'unprofessional' and instead talk about the reaction from customers and the impact on the stores reputation. Make sure the email is professional, well written and concise.

    I can't see this coming back on you because there is absolutely no chance this is tolerable behaviour for a store. Doing this behind closed doors would be tacitly accepted in some companies and frowned upon in others. Doing it in front of customers, that obviously not how people run shops. I used to work in retail, someone who did this would have been fired from any of the places I worked in (there were certainly managers who were absolute ******s in the staffroom but that's completely different).

    He's new to the company, odds are he's fired very quickly.

    Of course, by reporting it you do expose yourself a little, but that's not always a bad thing. There's always a slim chance that senior management will side with him and turn on you, but I find that incredibly unlikely, and given your new manager is obviously incompetent you have a lot to gain from raising this.
    Originally posted by jonnygee2

    Thanks jonnygee2.
    This is a new experience for me, if I were to have an issue with a fellow lowly employee I would just report it to the Manager. Think that's what the handbook say's but don't recall anything about reporting a Manager.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 8th Nov 18, 7:12 AM
    • 5,640 Posts
    • 9,737 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #7
    • 8th Nov 18, 7:12 AM
    • #7
    • 8th Nov 18, 7:12 AM
    My personal investment is that I work there and this incident is going to create a poor work environment if not dealt with soon. Gossiping has started and it's only a matter of time before it's on facebook if it isn't already and I would rather deal with it the correct way.
    Originally posted by Toorop
    There is no "correct way", and the previous assertions that this will be kept confidential and/ or that it can't come back on you are pie in the sky twaddle.

    It isn't good management or behaviour, but there's nothing wrong with it. Nothing in the handbook will say managers must be competent or have manners. On the other hand, it will outline the process for dismissing you (or whoever posts it on Facebook), which you might find handy to know.

    By all means report it if your personal moral code says you must. But don't be mislead about the likely outcome. At best it'll probably be nothing. Most likely, your name will go to the top of the list of people leaving in the immediate future.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 8th Nov 18, 7:58 AM
    • 5,536 Posts
    • 6,172 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #8
    • 8th Nov 18, 7:58 AM
    • #8
    • 8th Nov 18, 7:58 AM
    There is no "correct way", and the previous assertions that this will be kept confidential and/ or that it can't come back on you are pie in the sky twaddle.

    It isn't good management or behaviour, but there's nothing wrong with it.
    Originally posted by sangie595

    There may be nothing illegal about the behaviour but there is plenty 'wrong' about it. Staff matters should not be discussed in areas where that conversation can be overheard. That is most certainly the case is staff members are being named.
    It may be that the manager thinks it will scare staff into working harder if they think they may be for the chop but it is an appalling way for a manager to behave.
    • Takeaway_Addict
    • By Takeaway_Addict 8th Nov 18, 8:37 AM
    • 5,896 Posts
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    Takeaway_Addict
    • #9
    • 8th Nov 18, 8:37 AM
    • #9
    • 8th Nov 18, 8:37 AM
    There may be nothing illegal about the behaviour but there is plenty 'wrong' about it. Staff matters should not be discussed in areas where that conversation can be overheard. That is most certainly the case is staff members are being named.
    It may be that the manager thinks it will scare staff into working harder if they think they may be for the chop but it is an appalling way for a manager to behave.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    There are rare occasions when what the manager did is acceptable for the company, as you say if staff have not been performing or the store itself is under performing it certainly gives a warning shot to people to buck their ideas up. Though it is a one use thing really as then the manager needs to start dealing with the situation properly.


    But its probably more likely this manager is an !!!!.
    Don't trust a forum for advice. Get proper paid advice. Any advice given should always be checked
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 8th Nov 18, 11:00 AM
    • 4,161 Posts
    • 10,602 Thanks
    gettingtheresometime
    I personally wouldn't say anything but be grateful that you know what the manager is like so you can keep your nose clean.


    Don't accept him as a friend on facebook & refuse to join in any discussions on any form of social media....in fact refuse to get in any sort of discussions about it
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott / Argos Card cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


    Next on the list - JD Williams
    • RichardD1970
    • By RichardD1970 8th Nov 18, 11:39 AM
    • 3,062 Posts
    • 4,550 Thanks
    RichardD1970
    Of course, by reporting it you do expose yourself a little, but that's not always a bad thing. There's always a slim chance that senior management will side with him and turn on you, but I find that incredibly unlikely, and given your new manager is obviously incompetent you have a lot to gain from raising this.
    Originally posted by jonnygee2
    In my experience senior management will back the new manager that they hired, as to not do so would cast doubt on their own abilities.

    OP, as others have said, stay off social media with anything work related.
    • shortcrust
    • By shortcrust 8th Nov 18, 11:53 AM
    • 2,149 Posts
    • 3,311 Thanks
    shortcrust
    No law has been broken.But no large retail business tolerates this kind of thing. I think you should report it.

    If I were you I would write a detailed and entirely factual report of the incident to HR and ask it be kept it confidential. I would also give the names of any colleagues who can verify the incident took place (talk to them first!). Under no circumstances give it labels like 'unprofessional' and instead talk about the reaction from customers and the impact on the stores reputation. Make sure the email is professional, well written and concise.

    I can't see this coming back on you because there is absolutely no chance this is tolerable behaviour for a store. Doing this behind closed doors would be tacitly accepted in some companies and frowned upon in others. Doing it in front of customers, that obviously not how people run shops. I used to work in retail, someone who did this would have been fired from any of the places I worked in (there were certainly managers who were absolute ******s in the staffroom but that's completely different).

    He's new to the company, odds are he's fired very quickly.

    Of course, by reporting it you do expose yourself a little, but that's not always a bad thing. There's always a slim chance that senior management will side with him and turn on you, but I find that incredibly unlikely, and given your new manager is obviously incompetent you have a lot to gain from raising this.
    Originally posted by jonnygee2
    This is a massive load of nonsense and very poor advice from yet another person with a deluded belief that the world is a fair place.

    Years back someone in my team went to the big boss with various gripes about me. I was summoned and told in very blunt terms to get this person under control or get rid of them. They had zero interest in this bloke's complaints. They hadn't even really listened. They simply didn't want to be bothered by what they saw as troublemaking.
    • pjcox2005
    • By pjcox2005 8th Nov 18, 12:10 PM
    • 576 Posts
    • 620 Thanks
    pjcox2005
    Just raise it with the manager direct, saying it was overheard on the shopfloor and could cause issues. In future they may be better having those conversations behind closed doors and see if they change.


    It could be the call started on something basic and not sensitive and changed quickly catching them out.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 8th Nov 18, 12:17 PM
    • 5,640 Posts
    • 9,737 Thanks
    sangie595
    There may be nothing illegal about the behaviour but there is plenty 'wrong' about it. Staff matters should not be discussed in areas where that conversation can be overheard. That is most certainly the case is staff members are being named.
    It may be that the manager thinks it will scare staff into working harder if they think they may be for the chop but it is an appalling way for a manager to behave.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    I do not disagree with your opinion. But "wrong" goes alongside "not fair" in the workplace. If it isn't unlawful, it's irrelevant. It isn't unlawful. And our opinions about how managers should conduct themselves are equally irrelevant. The OP needs to be cautious they don't find out how irrelevant theirs is. Plenty of employers wouldn't give a damn about this manager - but the OP would be heading out of the door if they started putting in complaints.
    • shortcrust
    • By shortcrust 8th Nov 18, 12:18 PM
    • 2,149 Posts
    • 3,311 Thanks
    shortcrust
    Just raise it with the manager direct, saying it was overheard on the shopfloor and could cause issues. In future they may be better having those conversations behind closed doors and see if they change.


    It could be the call started on something basic and not sensitive and changed quickly catching them out.
    Originally posted by pjcox2005
    Or just hand in your notice. The outcome will be much the same.

    In what world do managers who openly talk about getting rid of staff suddenly become contrite and submissive when challenged by more junior employees?!

    Edit to add: Another thought is that this might have been deliberate. It's not a very pleasant approach, but it's not unheard of for managers to chuck a bit of fear about the place.
    Last edited by shortcrust; 08-11-2018 at 12:45 PM.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 8th Nov 18, 9:14 PM
    • 39,155 Posts
    • 36,061 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    Gossiping has started and it's only a matter of time before it's on facebook if it isn't already and I would rather deal with it the correct way.
    Originally posted by Toorop
    Block / unfriend all your colleagues. Say NOTHING on Facebook about where you work, what your manager is like, what your colleagues are doing. Ditto Twitter / any other social media you tend to use.

    And check your privacy settings while you're at it. Seriously. Work and Facebook do NOT mix.

    On the other hand, it will outline the process for dismissing you (or whoever posts it on Facebook), which you might find handy to know.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    or whoever comments on such a post on Facebook and then shares it with you. Which is why you check your privacy settings. Because Work and Facebook do NOT mix.

    Don't accept him as a friend on facebook & refuse to join in any discussions on any form of social media....in fact refuse to get in any sort of discussions about it
    Originally posted by gettingtheresometime
    And do not friend your peer level colleagues or subordinates on Facebook either. Which is why you check your privacy settings. Because Work and Facebook do NOT mix.

    Seriously ...
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats, 2 balaclavas for seamen, 1 balaclava for myself, multiple poppies, 3 peony flowers, 4 butterflies ...
    Current projects: ready to decrease / decreasing on all parts of the mohair cardigan pattern!
    • Beverley Hillbillies
    • By Beverley Hillbillies 9th Nov 18, 1:30 PM
    • 103 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Beverley Hillbillies
    By all means report it if your personal moral code says you must. But don't be mislead about the likely outcome
    Originally posted by sangie595
    Stand by your morals, never mind those who post suggesting move on, you'll be targeted etc., etc.,

    Stand up for yourself, if the employer decides to "target" you, recoed the evicence, you may have an ET claim for victimisation.

    Victimisation is against the law.


    And this from somone who is supposed to represent it's members:

    Most likely, your name will go to the top of the list of people leaving in the immediate future.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    Outragous,

    Instead of payimg union membershp fees, cancel union membership and use the amount for add on legal protection to one's insurance policy.

    Better to get legl advice from those qualified in employment law, rather than from a bunch of cyber wannabees
    • shortcrust
    • By shortcrust 9th Nov 18, 2:45 PM
    • 2,149 Posts
    • 3,311 Thanks
    shortcrust
    Stand by your morals, never mind those who post suggesting move on, you'll be targeted etc., etc.,

    Stand up for yourself, if the employer decides to "target" you, recoed the evicence, you may have an ET claim for victimisation.

    Victimisation is against the law.


    And this from somone who is supposed to represent it's members:



    Outragous,

    Instead of payimg union membershp fees, cancel union membership and use the amount for add on legal protection to one's insurance policy.

    Better to get legl advice from those qualified in employment law, rather than from a bunch of cyber wannabees
    Originally posted by Beverley Hillbillies
    Ridiculous post. Another visitor from a parallel world where fairness rules, high principles are rewarded and no one has ever lost a job without redress for nothing more than getting on the wrong side of a manager.
    Last edited by shortcrust; 09-11-2018 at 2:59 PM. Reason: Too early for getting on the wrong side of a manger.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 9th Nov 18, 3:31 PM
    • 5,640 Posts
    • 9,737 Thanks
    sangie595
    Ridiculous post. Another visitor from a parallel world where fairness rules, high principles are rewarded and no one has ever lost a job without redress for nothing more than getting on the wrong side of a manager.
    Originally posted by shortcrust
    Ignore them. They just enjoy starting an argument by telling people to do stupid things that are likely to get them sacked. Anyone checking their posting history can see that they enjoy trying to get people sacked.
    • Beverley Hillbillies
    • By Beverley Hillbillies 10th Nov 18, 10:53 AM
    • 103 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Beverley Hillbillies
    Ridiculous post. Another visitor from a parallel world where fairness rules, high principles are rewarded and no one has ever lost a job without redress for nothing more than getting on the wrong side of a manager.
    Originally posted by shortcrust
    I find your post more ridiculous

    Fairness rules, for me, yes it does.

    Prospects of losing employment for getting on the wrong side of a manager?? wtf!!!!!

    We're not in some 3rd world country here, if you want to be a "yes" person and part of the sheep brigade, so be it, that's your choice, it's my decision not to be.

    No one is employed t be treated disrespectfully, and for a union rep to post in numerous posts "it's not unlawful" is correct, however, victimisation is, strange how that member fails to mention it, I underlined victimisation is as that particular member likes underlining words within their posts, must give the some kind of "authority"

    One only has to look at history and individuals who stood up for themselves forcing change, to name just a few

    Emily Pankhurst

    Martin Luther King

    Rosa Parks

    Nelson Mandela

    So, Run along shortcrust in your own comfort zone, oh, and don't forget to collect the sheep followers behind
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