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    • beyond92
    • By beyond92 10th Sep 18, 8:57 PM
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    beyond92
    Lowell - Payment Due - Potential Statute Barred
    • #1
    • 10th Sep 18, 8:57 PM
    Lowell - Payment Due - Potential Statute Barred 10th Sep 18 at 8:57 PM
    Hi all,

    Today I received a letter from Lowell, it is regarding a Vodafone debt from 2010.

    They have written to me with one of their 'payment due' letters which simply says that as 'new' owners of this account, they wrote to me previously. And that they are contacting me to agree how to repay. By this I think they mean they sent a letter to my old address, have sussed out my new one - and are now getting in touch to agree a plan.

    The start date was Jan 2010 and defaulted in November 2012. However, I am almost certain that within the past 6 years I have not made any contact or payments regarding this debt, therefore potentially making it statute barred?

    My worry is that Lowell contacted me at my previous address within the 6 year limitation period. I am thinking of sending a reply letter, asking them to confirm the exact dates they contacted me (with proof) before sending them a letter on it being statute barred.

    Is this a good idea? Will they comply?

    My idea letter goes..

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    You have contacted me about the account with the above reference number, which you claim I owe. I do not admit any liability for your claim.

    Your letter, addressed 5th September 2018, claims that you have written to me previously.

    Can you please provide me with a full list of what specific dates you have contacted me with proof.


    Any help much appreciated before my next step.
Page 1
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 10th Sep 18, 9:39 PM
    • 15,698 Posts
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    sourcrates
    • #2
    • 10th Sep 18, 9:39 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Sep 18, 9:39 PM
    Makes no difference when they contacted you, so the above letter is irrelevant.

    The only thing that matters is if they start court action before the 6 year limit is up, it appears from what you say they have not done so, so with that in mind, I would send the statute barred letter available from the National Debtline website, this then puts the ball firmly in their court.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Just Di
    • By Just Di 10th Sep 18, 9:42 PM
    • 163 Posts
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    Just Di
    • #3
    • 10th Sep 18, 9:42 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Sep 18, 9:42 PM
    I received a letter from Lowell, it is regarding a Vodafone debt from 2010.
    . . . . The start date was Jan 2010 and defaulted in November 2012. However, I am almost certain that within the past 6 years I have not made any contact or payments regarding this debt, therefore potentially making it statute barred?

    My worry is that Lowell contacted me at my previous address within the 6 year limitation period. I am thinking of sending a reply letter, asking them to confirm the exact dates they contacted me (with proof) before sending them a letter on it being statute barred.

    Is this a good idea?
    Originally posted by beyond92
    My suggestion is that you need to establish whether this debt is Statute Barred (privately) before you go in guns blazing telling them it is when it might not be.

    That's the quickest way to get a claim issued because they can ignore Pre Action Protocol (to send you a Letter Before Claim) if the Statute Barred clock deadline is imminent.

    So when would this Vodafone contract have expired regardless of when you last paid them?

    I note you say the account was defaulted in November 2012 and sometimes the default date is relevant to Statute Barred status (in law).

    I don't know the full facts but from what you say you may be inches away from this debt becoming SB so tread carefully.

    Di
    Last edited by Just Di; 10-09-2018 at 9:59 PM. Reason: typo
    • beyond92
    • By beyond92 10th Sep 18, 9:43 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    beyond92
    • #4
    • 10th Sep 18, 9:43 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Sep 18, 9:43 PM
    Makes no difference when they contacted you, so the above letter is irrelevant.

    The only thing that matters is if they start court action before the 6 year limit is up, it appears from what you say they have not done so, so with that in mind, I would send the statute barred letter available from the National Debtline website.
    Originally posted by sourcrates
    Thank you.

    This current letter is actually quite "friendly" (presumably because they refer to me as a "valued customer" due to another debt I have paid off) and there's no talk of court action.

    I will send them the letter. The faux default date (which I believe has been brought forward) is December 2012, so should drop off my file then.
    • beyond92
    • By beyond92 10th Sep 18, 9:47 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    beyond92
    • #5
    • 10th Sep 18, 9:47 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Sep 18, 9:47 PM
    My suggestion is that you need to establish whether this debt is Statute barred (privately) before you go in guns blazing telling them it is when it might not be.

    That's the quickest way to get a claim issued because they can ignore Pre Action Protocol (to send you a Letter Before Claim) if the Statute Barred clock deadline is imminent.

    So when would this Vodafone contract have expired regardless of when you last paid them?

    I note you say the account was defaulted in November 2012 and sometimes the default date is relevant to Statute Barred status (in law).

    I don't know the full facts but from what you say you may be inches away from this debt becoming SB so tread carefully.

    Di
    Originally posted by Just Di
    Inches away... yeah that's my worry.

    I think I need to contact Vodafone and find out some more details, but I think the contract would've been up after 12/18 months, as 24 month contracts weren't as normal in 2010.

    So therefore January 2011 or July 2011.

    Do you think I should find out via Vodafone in private, when my last payment was/when the contract should have ended?

    Last thing I want to do is aggravate Lowell into a claim, I cannot afford a CCJ, I would rather just enter a repayment contract.
    • Just Di
    • By Just Di 10th Sep 18, 9:49 PM
    • 163 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    Just Di
    • #6
    • 10th Sep 18, 9:49 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Sep 18, 9:49 PM
    This current letter is actually quite "friendly" (presumably because they refer to me as a "valued customer" due to another debt I have paid off) and there's no talk of court action.

    I will send them the letter. The faux default date (which I believe has been brought forward) is December 2016, so should drop off my file then.
    Originally posted by beyond92
    I'm not sure if you've seen my previous post but the default date is relevant to the Statute Barred status (or not).

    If you say the Default date is December 2016 then it's possible that this debt will not become Statute Barred until December 2022.

    If the current letter is "quite friendly" then consider whether it needs a response, especially if your response may not help your legal position.

    If there's "no talk of legal action" then maybe there's no need to reply to that letter?

    Di
    Last edited by Just Di; 10-09-2018 at 9:51 PM.
    • beyond92
    • By beyond92 10th Sep 18, 9:53 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    beyond92
    • #7
    • 10th Sep 18, 9:53 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Sep 18, 9:53 PM
    I'm not sure if you've seen my previous post but the default date is relevant to the Statute Barred status (or not).

    If you say the Default date is December 2016 then it's possible that this debt will not become Statute Barred until December 2022.

    If the current letter is "quite friendly" then consider whether it needs a response, especially if your response may not help your legal position.

    If there's "no talk of legal action" then maybe there's no need to reply to that letter?

    Di
    Originally posted by Just Di
    I saw your reply, replied above

    Just to clarify, the default date is December 2012. I accidentally put 2016 (thought I managed to edit in time!)
    • Just Di
    • By Just Di 10th Sep 18, 9:58 PM
    • 163 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    Just Di
    • #8
    • 10th Sep 18, 9:58 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Sep 18, 9:58 PM
    the default date is December 2012. I accidentally put 2016 (thought I managed to edit in time!)
    Originally posted by beyond92
    Okay

    So the account was defaulted in December 2012 (thank you for clarifying that) which means this debt may not become Statute Barred until December 2018.

    Maybe you shouldn't rock the boat before December 2018.

    Why not send a Subject Access Request to Vodafone to get the full history of this account. Since 25th May it's free to send a SAR so that's what I suggest should be your next step.

    Di
    • beyond92
    • By beyond92 10th Sep 18, 10:05 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    beyond92
    • #9
    • 10th Sep 18, 10:05 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Sep 18, 10:05 PM
    Okay

    So the account was defaulted in December 2012 (thank you for clarifying that) which means this debt may not become Statute Barred until December 2018.

    Maybe you shouldn't rock the boat before December 2018.

    Why not send a Subject Access Request to Vodafone to get the full history of this account. Since 25th May it's free to send a SAR so that's what I suggest should be your next step.

    Di
    Originally posted by Just Di
    Thanks, that was one of my main worries (rocking the boat unnecessarily).

    I will send an SAR. I believe the timescale for response is shorter for this now too, due to GDPR?

    I was just about to contact Vodafone via their live chat service to ask for details. Should I do this or should I avoid and only get in touch via an SAR?

    Thanks for your advice btw.
    • Brummie85
    • By Brummie85 10th Sep 18, 10:15 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    Brummie85
    I was just about to contact Vodafone via their live chat service to ask for details. Should I do this or should I avoid and only get in touch via an SAR?
    Originally posted by beyond92
    The live chat operators on the website may not be able to access that information anyway, or discuss it without a verification.

    Getting them to reply in writing with the information is also probably a better option. The reply will be dated, assignable to a person and would generally considerable more credible if you needed to present it as part of your case.
    • Just Di
    • By Just Di 10th Sep 18, 10:23 PM
    • 163 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    Just Di
    I will send an SAR. I believe the timescale for response is shorter for this now too, due to GDPR?

    Thanks for your advice btw.
    Originally posted by beyond92
    You're welcome

    Under GDPR Vodafone has 30 days to respond to your Subject Access Request.

    Di
    • beyond92
    • By beyond92 10th Sep 18, 10:23 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    beyond92
    The live chat operators on the website may not be able to access that information anyway, or discuss it without a verification.

    Getting them to reply in writing with the information is also probably a better option. The reply will be dated, assignable to a person and would generally considerable more credible if you needed to present it as part of your case.
    Originally posted by Brummie85
    Good point, I will send off a letter/form to them tomorrow and hopefully in the meantime I don't hear from Lowell again.
    • beyond92
    • By beyond92 11th Sep 18, 10:19 AM
    • 35 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    beyond92
    You're welcome

    Under GDPR Vodafone has 30 days to respond to your Subject Access Request.

    Di
    Originally posted by Just Di
    Sent this morning. Their form wanted the address linked to the old account, I have put on it my new address twice and made it clear I want it sending to my new address so hopefully it doesn’t go to my old one linked to the account!
    • Just Di
    • By Just Di 11th Sep 18, 1:25 PM
    • 163 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    Just Di
    hopefully in the meantime I don't hear from Lowell again.
    Originally posted by beyond92
    If it's Lowell Portfolio (debt owner) writing to you they will probably send you another letter from the template library in about a month's time.

    I wouldn't worry too much unless you hear from Lowell Solicitors which may require a response.

    If they send you a Letter Before Claim you have 30 days to reply during which you can request various documents such as a Default Notice (if relevant), Notice of Assignment etc.

    With any luck you'll reach the SB moment in December before you run out of options.

    Di
  • Vodafone
    Hi beyond92,

    We'd like to take a closer look into this for you, to see if there's anything we can do to help.

    Please email us via the form here. To access it, you'll need to enter the code WRT135.

    As well as stating your query in the question box, please also quote "MSE Forum". Once sent, you'll receive an automated reply with a reference number to confirm we’ve received your email.

    Kind regards,

    Chazz

    Vodafone Social Media
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Vodafone. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 14th Sep 18, 6:15 PM
    • 15,698 Posts
    • 14,770 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Hi beyond92,

    We'd like to take a closer look into this for you, to see if there's anything we can do to help.

    Please email us via the form here. To access it, you'll need to enter the code WRT135.

    As well as stating your query in the question box, please also quote "MSE Forum". Once sent, you'll receive an automated reply with a reference number to confirm we’ve received your email.

    Kind regards,

    Chazz

    Vodafone Social Media
    Originally posted by Vodafone

    Just out of curiosity chazz, Vodafone seems to appear on this forum more often than most of the other mobile networks, I just wondered if any of the members who complain about the issues they are having ever get a resolution ?


    As far as i can recall, not one has ever been back to update us as yet.


    Would you say your record in this dept is good ?
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • beyond92
    • By beyond92 16th Oct 18, 3:34 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    beyond92
    Hi all,

    Thanks for your previous help. And thanks to the above advisor, but I went through the official SAR procedure and have received a response today.

    Just also as a side-updated, I have received two more template letters from Lowell. Both in a friendly tone again, basically asking what's up.

    I feel via the information that I am actually now statute barred but want someone to confirm.

    Here goes:

    - You have asked for your contract dates, we can confirm these were from start date 22 January 2010 to end date 21 January 2014. You did an early upgrade with us on 26 October 2011 during your first contract term.

    - You have asked for your last payment made to Vodafone, we can confirm this was on date 02 June 2012 for the amount of £20.

    - You have asked for your last contact with Vodafone, we can confirm this was the 17 August 2012 via our Live Webchat Service.

    So it has been over 6 years since I last made contact with Vodafone, and also over 6 years since I last made a payment. Am I now statute barred and can send Lowell the necessary letters?

    Just to reiterate info in my original post - I defaulted in November 2012

    Any help is very much appreciated.
    • beyond92
    • By beyond92 16th Oct 18, 8:04 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    beyond92
    If it's Lowell Portfolio (debt owner) writing to you they will probably send you another letter from the template library in about a month's time.

    I wouldn't worry too much unless you hear from Lowell Solicitors which may require a response.

    If they send you a Letter Before Claim you have 30 days to reply during which you can request various documents such as a Default Notice (if relevant), Notice of Assignment etc.

    With any luck you'll reach the SB moment in December before you run out of options.

    Di
    Originally posted by Just Di
    Heard back, see my reply above
    • BoltStar
    • By BoltStar 17th Oct 18, 12:03 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    BoltStar
    Statue Barred will be effective from the month that you defaulted on the account on this occasion seeing as your last payment and contact were before Nov 2012.
    • beyond92
    • By beyond92 17th Oct 18, 4:04 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    beyond92
    Statue Barred will be effective from the month that you defaulted on the account on this occasion seeing as your last payment and contact were before Nov 2012.
    Originally posted by BoltStar
    Thanks - and I presume it becomes Statute Barred on the exact date rather than the entire month? I'd need to reference my credit file but unsure if it specified a date or just the month.

    I notice on the log they sent me as part of the SAR that there's an entry on the 5th November before the next log which is in July 2013, where they sold it to a debt collection agency. So perhaps the 5th is the date.
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