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  • FIRST POST
    • Hani.86
    • By Hani.86 10th Jul 18, 11:35 AM
    • 2Posts
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    Hani.86
    Conditional job offer and having to pay dbs myself
    • #1
    • 10th Jul 18, 11:35 AM
    Conditional job offer and having to pay dbs myself 10th Jul 18 at 11:35 AM
    I applied for a kitchen asistent job in a care home and had an interview. I have some experience, but not all the experience and qualifications they are looking for, so they said they will give me 3 months trial.

    They said i have to pay £59 for dbs, they will check references, then I can have the job. I haven't received any written offer yet, we discussed this on the interview.

    I wouldn't mind paying the dbs check myself, even when it's a lot of money. But what worries me, what if I pay for the check, and they change their mind and don't employ me? Can they do that? Or should I demand some written contract that I will definitely get the job subject to the dbs and references?

    Another slightly worrying thing is the "trial job" thing... I don't want to pay £60 and then they will not keep me after 3 months.

    Is this normal in this sort of job, or do I need to ask for some sort of written agreement?
Page 1
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 10th Jul 18, 11:46 AM
    • 5,278 Posts
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    spadoosh
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 18, 11:46 AM
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 18, 11:46 AM
    Id say it was pretty normal.

    Its a risk to a certain extent but then its not like the DBS runs out if you leave, you can take it to other jobs.

    Written offers and trials dont make too much different, its pretty easy to dismiss someone in the early stage of employment. They can dismiss you for more or less any reason barring certain types of discrimination.

    You can ask them about written contracts but again it doesnt really mean much when they can say the day after your trial 'i dont like you, dont come back to work'
    Don't be angry!
    • marlot
    • By marlot 10th Jul 18, 11:47 AM
    • 3,521 Posts
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    marlot
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 18, 11:47 AM
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 18, 11:47 AM
    I recommend that when the DBS certificate comes back you sign up for the update service (£13/year). This means that if this job doesn't work out and you need another DBS further down the line you can produce it instantly (and at no further cost).


    It might also be worth checking what level of DBS they want. They may not be aware that you can get a basic check done yourself for £25. https://www.gov.uk/request-copy-criminal-record
    • MarkN88
    • By MarkN88 10th Jul 18, 11:50 AM
    • 82 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    MarkN88
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 18, 11:50 AM
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 18, 11:50 AM
    In respect of the DBS and running out. Most companies now who have proper safeguarding in place wouldn!!!8217;t accept a DBS done from another employer, it would need to be a fresh one,

    It!!!8217;s normal practice to ask the employee to pay from what I know of the area although I!!!8217;d still expect a job offer but that would still state !!!8220;receipt of satisfactory references and a DBS check!!!8221;.
    • marlot
    • By marlot 10th Jul 18, 11:52 AM
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    marlot
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 18, 11:52 AM
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 18, 11:52 AM
    ...Its a risk to a certain extent but then its not like the DBS runs out if you leave, you can take it to other jobs...
    Originally posted by spadoosh
    Unfortunately, that's only partly true Lots of places (including the charity I do DBS checking for) are very reluctant to accept a DBS check done by someone else. And there is also the fact that it would be several months old by then.


    https://www.personnelchecks.co.uk/blog/posts/2014/july/are-dbs-checks-portable/


    That's why I'd recommend the update service to anyone who thinks they may need a DBS again in the relatively near future.
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 10th Jul 18, 11:55 AM
    • 5,278 Posts
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    spadoosh
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 18, 11:55 AM
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 18, 11:55 AM
    I recommend that when the DBS certificate comes back you sign up for the update service (£13/year). This means that if this job doesn't work out and you need another DBS further down the line you can produce it instantly (and at no further cost).


    It might also be worth checking what level of DBS they want. They may not be aware that you can get a basic check done yourself for £25. https://www.gov.uk/request-copy-criminal-record
    Originally posted by marlot
    I think food prep in a care home is a regulated activity so does need the enhanced DBS. £59 is expensive for it though.
    Don't be angry!
    • marlot
    • By marlot 10th Jul 18, 12:34 PM
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    marlot
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 18, 12:34 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 18, 12:34 PM
    I think food prep in a care home is a regulated activity....
    Originally posted by spadoosh
    I would be surprised if the prep is regulated, but would expect a check if the person is helping the vulnerable adult to eat or drink.
    • keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • By keepcalmandstayoutofdebt 10th Jul 18, 1:14 PM
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    keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 18, 1:14 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 18, 1:14 PM
    You could put it to them they take the cost of the DBS from your wages spread over 2/3 month’s - a care home local to me does it this way and apparently there was some proviso if you complete a year’s service, then you get a full refund of the cost outlaid, so it was always coming back to you if staying - I thought it a clever idea.

    Paid for all my CRB’s/DBS’s each and every time in the past bar two, not sure I would be so willing for someone who had deliberately said there would be a trial involved. I would ask them what ‘company probation’ is in place as it could be they are getting this and trial mixed up. You are definitely in the best place to get in writing what happens ‘in the event, before you start.

    People will jump in on me that company probation doesn’t in theory exist but often this is when company pension has been applied as far as I am concerned and you are deemed at a point to carry on with the company. As for absolute protection nobody ever has this.
    "If you are caught in a rainstorm, once you accept that you'll receive a soaking, the only thing left to do is enjoy the walk"
    • General Grant
    • By General Grant 10th Jul 18, 1:31 PM
    • 736 Posts
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    General Grant
    • #9
    • 10th Jul 18, 1:31 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Jul 18, 1:31 PM
    I would be surprised if the prep is regulated, but would expect a check if the person is helping the vulnerable adult to eat or drink.
    Originally posted by marlot

    All jobs in a care home are "regulated" in that an Enhanced check has to be requested. Those jobs which include more intimate contact with residents (including feeding those unable to feed themselves) should also have the Barred List(s) checked.

    Using the Update service does make it easy (instantaneous when they have put in surname, certificate number and, I think, dob) for the employer to check - but they need to see the original certificate too which is covered by the Update to make sure that it covers their requirements.
    • marlot
    • By marlot 10th Jul 18, 8:36 PM
    • 3,521 Posts
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    marlot
    You may be right - all my DBS activity is in a different sector. But I thought the rules had changed.

    A search found this:

    The guidance relating to those working on care home sites, but not directly providing a care role, was changed when the new eligibility information on Regulated Activity was introduced. This means that a Care Home for Adults is no longer classed as a !!!8216;Specified Place!!!8217;. It is now much more important the role being undertaken by the employee is evaluated in line with DBS guidelines.


    https://www.ddc.uk.net/criminal-record-checks/case-studies/care-sector-case-study/
    • hyubh
    • By hyubh 10th Jul 18, 9:23 PM
    • 2,182 Posts
    • 1,694 Thanks
    hyubh
    Id say it was pretty normal.
    Originally posted by spadoosh
    If true (and I have no reason to doubt), crikey the idea of 'normal' for those at the bottom is nakedly exploitative. I'm (just) a higher rate taxpayer and needed to get several DBS-type checks over the past 12 months (albeit completely different sector), but the idea I'd be paying for them myself is ridiculous. And paying as a condition for a 'three month trial'? Unthinkable.

    Genuine question for everyone confirming this is perfectly normal - how does the OP distinguish from a potential employer offering this deal that is honest (i.e. intends to keep the terms), and one that is not...?
    • daisy_jean
    • By daisy_jean 10th Jul 18, 9:44 PM
    • 260 Posts
    • 309 Thanks
    daisy_jean
    Unfortunately, that's only partly true Lots of places (including the charity I do DBS checking for) are very reluctant to accept a DBS check done by someone else. And there is also the fact that it would be several months old by then.


    https://www.personnelchecks.co.uk/blog/posts/2014/july/are-dbs-checks-portable/


    That's why I'd recommend the update service to anyone who thinks they may need a DBS again in the relatively near future.
    Originally posted by marlot
    Sorry off topic but...

    Surely though if you're subscribed to the online checker (the £13 a year one) this doesn't necessarily count now? I'm a Deputy Manager in a private day nursery, and have just applied to Uni which requires a DBS. Mine was over 3years old, but was accepted because I have the online checker which means they can check me out and have up to date info?

    Because lets be honest, without the online yearly checker, the old DBS's were out of date as soon as they were carried out.
    • Hani.86
    • By Hani.86 11th Jul 18, 9:27 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Hani.86
    I won't be feeding the residents but sometimes might be serving or taking the food to their rooms, so that's why I think I need the enhanced dbs check. I'm not sure if I will need the yearly updates, I haven't specifically looked for a care home job. This is my first one of this kind, I was looking for anything food/kitchen related...

    I will have to ask them for more details about this trial/probation contract, I don't want to pay £60 for a three months job... Also don't want to leave current permanent job for a three month job... Obviously permanent job have probation period but i think it's easier to get rid of an employee after fixed term trial, than in probation period...
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 12th Jul 18, 2:04 AM
    • 38,720 Posts
    • 35,507 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    I'm not sure if I will need the yearly updates, I haven't specifically looked for a care home job. This is my first one of this kind, I was looking for anything food/kitchen related...
    Originally posted by Hani.86
    If you can possibly afford the update service, go for it. Then wherever you go that might need a check, you'll be prepared.

    I will have to ask them for more details about this trial/probation contract, I don't want to pay £60 for a three months job... Also don't want to leave current permanent job for a three month job... Obviously permanent job have probation period but i think it's easier to get rid of an employee after fixed term trial, than in probation period...
    Originally posted by Hani.86
    Not significantly until you've been there for two years. Until then it's really easy to get rid of you, and even if it's a fixed term they can decide to end the term early.
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats 2 balaclavas for seamen, 1 balaclava for myself ...
    Current projects: Poppies, mohair cardigan pattern arrived and going strong!
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