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  • FIRST POST
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 28th Jun 18, 9:49 AM
    • 2,444Posts
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    Oakdene
    Am I the only one who thinks it isn't right...
    • #1
    • 28th Jun 18, 9:49 AM
    Am I the only one who thinks it isn't right... 28th Jun 18 at 9:49 AM
    Basically my ex wife & I have 2 children, our daughter (13) lives with me & our son (10) lives with her. We split the care 50:50, as in our kids spend every weekend & all school holidays together.



    We both work & she has re-married. Her husband works as a social worker. Most people in this situation, i.e. with care of one child each, would not bother with maintenance as it's swings & roundabouts. However we do, I pay £130 a month (direct into her account) & she pays me £75 a month (which is actually £90 as she uses CMS collect & pay despite me giving my bank details to her).



    My son came over the other weekend & said that 'Mum is going to college to re-train' (currently works in admin). So when I saw her next I asked, with genuine interest what she was re-training in & she said nursing hopefully. She then said that as of September, her maintenance payments would be stopping as she won't be working at all. I didn't say anything apart from 'Ok'.


    Am I wrong in thinking that it is a little unfair that I will be the only one paying maintenance now, especially given that I am (very happily) single & she has re-married (to someone who earns a good fair whack more than me)?
    Dwy galon, un dyhead,
    Dwy dafod ond un iaith,
    Dwy raff yn cydio’n ddolen,
    Dau enaid ond un taith.


Page 1
    • Nannytone
    • By Nannytone 28th Jun 18, 12:24 PM
    • 130 Posts
    • 210 Thanks
    Nannytone
    • #2
    • 28th Jun 18, 12:24 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Jun 18, 12:24 PM
    What her husband earns is irrelevant because they are your children and not his.

    It would be nice if people acted in a fair way but they don't
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 28th Jun 18, 12:29 PM
    • 2,444 Posts
    • 8,828 Thanks
    Oakdene
    • #3
    • 28th Jun 18, 12:29 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Jun 18, 12:29 PM
    What her husband earns is irrelevant because they are your children and not his.

    It would be nice if people acted in a fair way but they don't
    Originally posted by Nannytone

    I do see what you mean by this but by the same token why should the amount of maintenance I receive from her be reduced because she has decided to have another child?
    Dwy galon, un dyhead,
    Dwy dafod ond un iaith,
    Dwy raff yn cydio’n ddolen,
    Dau enaid ond un taith.


    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 29th Jun 18, 8:52 AM
    • 8,997 Posts
    • 6,730 Thanks
    pmduk
    • #4
    • 29th Jun 18, 8:52 AM
    • #4
    • 29th Jun 18, 8:52 AM
    I do see what you mean by this but by the same token why should the amount of maintenance I receive from her be reduced because she has decided to have another child?
    Originally posted by Oakdene
    You said she is retraining not having another child
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 29th Jun 18, 8:54 AM
    • 2,444 Posts
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    Oakdene
    • #5
    • 29th Jun 18, 8:54 AM
    • #5
    • 29th Jun 18, 8:54 AM
    You said she is retraining not having another child
    Originally posted by pmduk

    Yes she is retraining. The amount of maintenance she pays me was reduced when she had a child with her new husband 2 years ago.
    Dwy galon, un dyhead,
    Dwy dafod ond un iaith,
    Dwy raff yn cydio’n ddolen,
    Dau enaid ond un taith.


    • BAFE
    • By BAFE 29th Jun 18, 6:51 PM
    • 121 Posts
    • 156 Thanks
    BAFE
    • #6
    • 29th Jun 18, 6:51 PM
    • #6
    • 29th Jun 18, 6:51 PM
    You expect another man to pay for your children?
    • Sambella
    • By Sambella 29th Jun 18, 11:51 PM
    • 388 Posts
    • 396 Thanks
    Sambella
    • #7
    • 29th Jun 18, 11:51 PM
    • #7
    • 29th Jun 18, 11:51 PM
    The issue is that you both only have your non resident children (who live with the other parent ) weekends and holidays and not 50/50 day to day care. You’d need to have them 3.5 days each or 7 days out of 14 or whatever other equal split. So technically you’re both liable for CMS for 1 child only each if one wants it that way.

    If the split of the non resident children was a true 50/50 neither of you would be classed as non resident parents.
    • jimd-f
    • By jimd-f 30th Jun 18, 10:14 AM
    • 162 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    jimd-f
    • #8
    • 30th Jun 18, 10:14 AM
    • #8
    • 30th Jun 18, 10:14 AM
    not quite right Sambella as the issue of who is the parent with care is governed by who receives the child benefit.
    so if both parents receive child benefit for the child living with them then even if they have 50/50 shared care there could still be CMS cases open by either party, or both, and both Paying Parents would have to contribute based on their respective incomes.
    • HoneyNutLoop
    • By HoneyNutLoop 1st Jul 18, 9:24 AM
    • 512 Posts
    • 400 Thanks
    HoneyNutLoop
    • #9
    • 1st Jul 18, 9:24 AM
    • #9
    • 1st Jul 18, 9:24 AM
    Sambella is in fact correct for a new CMS case. If both parents share equal day to day care (not just overnight care) and both equally bear financial responsibility then neither can be classed as a non resident parent. This is a significant and deliberate shift in law from CSA cases, where one parent must be determined as the non resident parent.
    I often use a tablet to post, so sometimes my posts will have random letters inserted, or entirely the wrong word if autocorrect is trying to wind me up. Hopefully you'll still know what I mean.
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 2nd Jul 18, 12:40 PM
    • 2,444 Posts
    • 8,828 Thanks
    Oakdene
    You expect another man to pay for your children?
    Originally posted by BAFE

    Not at all, if I had it my way we wouldn't even be paying maintenance to each other.
    Dwy galon, un dyhead,
    Dwy dafod ond un iaith,
    Dwy raff yn cydio’n ddolen,
    Dau enaid ond un taith.


    • jimd-f
    • By jimd-f 3rd Jul 18, 9:06 AM
    • 162 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    jimd-f
    HoneyNutLoop, you are correct in what you say.
    the problem in reality is that if both parents do not agree that there is 50/50 day to day care and the receiving parent gets child benefit then CMS will open a case and pursue the paying parent.
    it will be up to the paying parent to prove that there should not be a case.

    this can be quite a complex issue -there have been court cases involving Durham Legal Services- as the government has not legally defined day to day care.
    as the governments position on child care is that this should be worked out between parents wherever possible in a case like this then without an agreement between the parties you get to the position where there are 2 cases open; which was never the intention
    • HoneyNutLoop
    • By HoneyNutLoop 4th Jul 18, 1:19 PM
    • 512 Posts
    • 400 Thanks
    HoneyNutLoop
    A parent does not need child benefit to open a case. They can open one without it. And for CMS to be contacting the other parent, a case will already be open - this issue only ever arises once the case is open. It might be pre-calculation but it’ll be open.

    What you posted before though is wholly wrong - child benefit is not the sole determining factor for the end decision if primary career status is challenged and it’s not a foregone conclusion that one parent will end up paying even if there is 50/50 care. To say so is misleading and may lead someone to not even bother raising it with CMS when they otherwise might have.

    You didn’t say it is complex or difficult to resolve, you said even if there is 50/50 one parent will pay. That’s simply not accurate and bad advice.
    I often use a tablet to post, so sometimes my posts will have random letters inserted, or entirely the wrong word if autocorrect is trying to wind me up. Hopefully you'll still know what I mean.
    • jimd-f
    • By jimd-f 5th Jul 18, 9:09 AM
    • 162 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    jimd-f
    there are 2 aspects to this which are completely different.
    shared care is when the child(ren) stays overnight with the paying parent and
    50/50 day to day care is when both parties can be shown to contribute equally to the upkeep/welfare of their children and does not necessarily mean they spend equal number of nights with either parent.

    with shared care the paying parent would still be required to make payments even if the number of nights was 50/50. CMS would use child benefit to decide who was the paying/receiving payment; so if both parties tried to open a case where they had 50/50 shared care CMS would make the person receiving child benefit the receiving parent.

    with 50/50 day to day care if a case was opened CMS would look at the statements made by both parties and try to assess whether there should be a case. as, by trying to open a case, one party would usually be convinced that there was not 50/50 day to day care. in these circumstances it would be normal for CMS, if they could not persuade both parties to make their own arrangement for CMS to go with the party receiving child benefit being the receiving parent. it would then be up to the paying parent to provide the proof that they have 50/50 day to day care, which could take time, and in the meantime CMS could be pursuing them for payments.
    • HoneyNutLoop
    • By HoneyNutLoop 5th Jul 18, 6:21 PM
    • 512 Posts
    • 400 Thanks
    HoneyNutLoop
    Yes, I’m aware. Except the bit about the nights not being equal. The nights must be broadly equal (given there are an odd number of nights in the year) in order for day to day care to become a consideration. But that is not what you initially said. This is:

    “the issue of who is the parent with care is governed by who receives the child benefit.
    so if both parents receive child benefit for the child living with them then even if they have 50/50 shared care there could still be CMS cases open by either party, or both, and both Paying Parents would have to contribute based on their respective incomes”

    Which was in response to Sambella’s post about 50/50 day to day care.

    What you’ve said now is not the same as what you said before, and what Sambella said, which you were disagreeing with,was fully accurate. If they have a true 50/50 day to day split, neither can be the non resident parent.

    Day to day care and how it should be considered for maintenance purposes has been the subject of a number of upper tribunal decisions, and as such there is much reading on the subject that can be done to help a parent in the throes of a dispute.

    Your comment was misleading and to be honest, just plain wrong. I’ve challenged you because i think it’s important not just for the op but future readers not to be dispirited into giving up when the law is on their side regarding 50/50 day to day care and the decision that should be reached if they can evidence it.
    I often use a tablet to post, so sometimes my posts will have random letters inserted, or entirely the wrong word if autocorrect is trying to wind me up. Hopefully you'll still know what I mean.
    • jimd-f
    • By jimd-f 6th Jul 18, 11:42 AM
    • 162 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    jimd-f
    my reading of Sambella's post, rightly or wrongly, is that they were not referring to "day to day care" but replying to the shared care aspect mentioned in the original post. as you are aware the two things are completely different.
    I was initially just pointing out that 50/50 shared care will still result in a paying parent having to pay, or both if there are 2 cases open.
    I think the further posts clarifying the differences between 50/50 day to day care and 50/50 shared case will help others understand these differences
    • HoneyNutLoop
    • By HoneyNutLoop 6th Jul 18, 12:07 PM
    • 512 Posts
    • 400 Thanks
    HoneyNutLoop
    Despite the fact she specifically says 50/50 day to day care in her post?
    I often use a tablet to post, so sometimes my posts will have random letters inserted, or entirely the wrong word if autocorrect is trying to wind me up. Hopefully you'll still know what I mean.
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 9th Jul 18, 1:46 PM
    • 2,444 Posts
    • 8,828 Thanks
    Oakdene
    Very bizarrely I just had a call from my ex wife who wanted to let me know she was leaving work to re-train. I was nice about it & said 'congratulations, I know you've wanted to do this for a while'.


    She then said that the her maintenance payments would stop & that as we both have one child each she doesn't see it as fair that should pay her & nothing coming back. She's called the CM team &started the ball rolling.


    Didn't see that coming
    Dwy galon, un dyhead,
    Dwy dafod ond un iaith,
    Dwy raff yn cydio’n ddolen,
    Dau enaid ond un taith.


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