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  • FIRST POST
    • DuWolf
    • By DuWolf 14th Apr 18, 11:04 PM
    • 167Posts
    • 58Thanks
    DuWolf
    Advice over Trial periods for work .. extend again and again and ...
    • #1
    • 14th Apr 18, 11:04 PM
    Advice over Trial periods for work .. extend again and again and ... 14th Apr 18 at 11:04 PM
    I and around 40 others have been employed by a well known supermarket chain at the same time. Our initial contract stated that there would be a probationary period which was 3 months and after we would be offered a permanent contract.
    We all adhered to this with regular meetings and performance reviews. At the end of the 3 months we were all handed a letter which stated congratulations on passing the 3 months but 'Due to business needs' this period will now be extended by another 3 months.
    3 Months passed and we had a sit down meeting with the shift manager which assured us that there would be no more extensions at the end of this period and we would be set on as full time.
    Which brings us to this month and this week we are now told this probational will now be extended until January which is a further 9 months.
    In total it will make 18 months on a trial basis and were told by the shift managers they can continue this for 4 years.

    Is this correct what they say? Any advice greatly appreciated.
Page 1
    • Xbigman
    • By Xbigman 15th Apr 18, 1:48 AM
    • 3,132 Posts
    • 1,362 Thanks
    Xbigman
    • #2
    • 15th Apr 18, 1:48 AM
    • #2
    • 15th Apr 18, 1:48 AM
    Yes they are essentially correct. I did nine months on three monthly temporary contracts when I started and then got taken on. Others were there over 3 years on temporary contracts and weren't taken on until after me. For agency workers it can be worse. One agency guy has been at my warehouse for 6 years and every time he might get taken on he has either had a few days sick, or had an accident or is over the limit on mistakes so never quite makes the cut.
    Its not quite that simple because after 2 years of continual employment you gain employment rights for whatever contract you are on, but you don't get the right to a full time contract with full time benefits.

    I'd also caution against relying on shift managers comments. Most big retailers run a business model where those at the top make decisions and shift managers have no say in what happens.

    You need to stick it out and one day they will take you on, and working for one of the big supermarkets is generally a secure job.



    Darren
    Xbigman's guide to a happy life.

    Eat properly
    Sleep properly
    Save some money
    • DuWolf
    • By DuWolf 15th Apr 18, 2:01 AM
    • 167 Posts
    • 58 Thanks
    DuWolf
    • #3
    • 15th Apr 18, 2:01 AM
    • #3
    • 15th Apr 18, 2:01 AM
    Cheers, We receive full benefits .. Holidays, Double Lieu on bank holidays, annual bonuses etc so the setup is quiet beneficial but nothing beats the security of having a contract.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 15th Apr 18, 5:07 AM
    • 33,076 Posts
    • 19,948 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #4
    • 15th Apr 18, 5:07 AM
    • #4
    • 15th Apr 18, 5:07 AM
    Permanent is just a temp contract without an end date YET.

    What contractual conditions change when you go "permanent" that is the key something material like a pay rise or more of something

    You have no extra security by them removing the end/review date, because they can just change their minds and put one back in.


    There is no 4 year limit they can do this for as long as they want.
    • Ja7188
    • By Ja7188 15th Apr 18, 10:45 AM
    • 201 Posts
    • 191 Thanks
    Ja7188
    • #5
    • 15th Apr 18, 10:45 AM
    • #5
    • 15th Apr 18, 10:45 AM
    Probably a good idea to be looking around for other jobs (if you aren't already) - the staff are presumably on shorter notice periods than they would be if their trial periods ended and the reason for extending may be allow the company to let people go with less notice - which in turn suggests that the business and/ or the individual store may well be struggling...
    • KiKi
    • By KiKi 15th Apr 18, 1:21 PM
    • 4,977 Posts
    • 8,072 Thanks
    KiKi
    • #6
    • 15th Apr 18, 1:21 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Apr 18, 1:21 PM
    Unless there is a contractual change at the end of your probation, then it's quite irrelevant that they're doing this. The following applies assuming that you're employed directly by the employer:

    The '4 year' thing is where you are employed on a fixed term contract (a contract with a specific end date), and it keeps being extended. After 4 years, you have the right to request the contract to be made 'non-fixed term' (ie, 'permanent') and they would have to have a very good reason to refuse.

    However, that's also irrelevant! Whether you're on a fixed term contract, or a 'permanent' contract with a probation period, makes no difference. Why? Because they can get rid of you for pretty much any reason in the first two years anyway, no matter what your contract or probationary status. And after two years, they would have to follow due process to dismiss you - no matter what your contract or probationary status. Ie, they can't dismiss you after two years unless it's for a reason allowed in law, otherwise it's unfair dismissal.

    So the only thing that really matters is how long you have had continuous employment there. You don't need to worry about anything else. Of course, whilst it doesn't change the legal position, the only thing I would say is that if your employer is continuing to extend probation, it may suggest that they are not thinking about keeping you all on.

    HTH
    KiKi
    ' <-- See that? It's called an apostrophe. It does not mean "hey, look out, here comes an S".
    • keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • By keepcalmandstayoutofdebt 15th Apr 18, 1:29 PM
    • 3,369 Posts
    • 1,753 Thanks
    keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • #7
    • 15th Apr 18, 1:29 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Apr 18, 1:29 PM
    Have you a pension set up? Whilst I've never had a letter confirming 'probation past', I imagine my 'employer' would now argue a month's notice in effect (which covers them for the rest of my FTC) acts as such when that came into force at 3 months in when the pension started. Against no appraisals, no 1 to 1's, no chats whatsoever to do with the job function.

    Personally I think fixed term contacts are going to be the next big thing to the zero hours scandal - look at all these adverts where it isn't any longer the employee wanting to try various slices of the cake...

    https://www.indeed.co.uk/viewjob?jk=8a9aab10b742180a&from=myjobs&tk=1cb4ifp 769cmf99n
    6 Months FTC
    https://www.indeed.co.uk/viewjob?jk=061baa9958252311&from=myjobs&tk=1cb4igg tr9cmefbk
    6 Months FTC
    https://www.indeed.co.uk/viewjob?jk=4df762b6b4811190&from=myjobs&tk=1cb4ihe 3l9cmfe7k
    Temporary - 6 month contract
    https://www.indeed.co.uk/viewjob?jk=4dbc87e7463a2610&from=myjobs&tk=1cb4ins mp9cmf8rp
    Fixed Term Contract till March 2019
    https://www.indeed.co.uk/viewjob?jk=2ef3819f6440bccb&from=myjobs&tk=1cb4it2 qi9cme92i
    6 Month Contract
    And this is just a selection.
    "If you are caught in a rainstorm, once you accept that you'll receive a soaking, the only thing left to do is enjoy the walk"
    • 20aday
    • By 20aday 16th Apr 18, 11:20 AM
    • 2,285 Posts
    • 955 Thanks
    20aday
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 18, 11:20 AM
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 18, 11:20 AM
    Which supermarket is this, out of interest?

    I work for a supermarket and for the first couple of three month contracts I had an 'end' date printed on them; when I reached the end of the second term the 'end' date disappeared meaning I'd been taken on permanently.
    It's not your credit score that counts, it's your credit history. Any replies are my own personal opinion and not a representation of my employer.
    • Xbigman
    • By Xbigman 16th Apr 18, 7:12 PM
    • 3,132 Posts
    • 1,362 Thanks
    Xbigman
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 18, 7:12 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 18, 7:12 PM
    If you work for a supermarket or a sub contractor do not name them.


    Darren
    Xbigman's guide to a happy life.

    Eat properly
    Sleep properly
    Save some money
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 17th Apr 18, 9:08 AM
    • 21,020 Posts
    • 16,805 Thanks
    agrinnall
    If you work for a supermarket or a sub contractor do not name them.


    Darren
    Originally posted by Xbigman
    Why not? Unless the OP's name really is DuWolf I can't see how they can be individually identified. I suppose the supermarket might be very vindictive and sack all 40 of the group, but it doesn't seem very likely.
    • Xbigman
    • By Xbigman 17th Apr 18, 4:18 PM
    • 3,132 Posts
    • 1,362 Thanks
    Xbigman
    The big Supermarkets are all paranoid about their reputations. They all have social media or digital media policies. They all have teams to watch Social media and protect their reputations, which includes what current employees say. The OP has made 35 posts. How do you know they have not said something to identify themselves in one of them.
    You do not ever name the Supermarket you work for. It is a good idea not to name your employer in general but the supermarkets, and their major contractors, are particularly vigilant.

    Last year one colleague was disciplined (but not sacked) simply for saying they had a bad night at work.
    If I sound paranoid it's because I am. I want to keep my job.


    Darren
    Xbigman's guide to a happy life.

    Eat properly
    Sleep properly
    Save some money
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 17th Apr 18, 6:42 PM
    • 3,984 Posts
    • 7,222 Thanks
    Smodlet
    What a world we live in. Are people not allowed to have a bad shift, now? Time supermarkets and employers in general realise they are staffed by human beings, not robots, imho.

    To everyone who works in a supermarket, I really don't know how you do it. That incessant "music" alone would drive me nuts"! Seriously, guys, . You deserve it.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
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