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  • FIRST POST
    • surveyor_101
    • By surveyor_101 10th Apr 18, 7:58 PM
    • 185Posts
    • 124Thanks
    surveyor_101
    Signed off sick but asked to attend review meeting
    • #1
    • 10th Apr 18, 7:58 PM
    Signed off sick but asked to attend review meeting 10th Apr 18 at 7:58 PM
    I have been off work sick since the 5/04/18.

    My workload went crazy in March as I was asked to take over a project from another member of staff and was just told one day that I was taking over by my Boss. The other member if staff told me in the first week of march his involvement ended in feb.

    I struggled with this as not used to as I joined them 5 months ago and had just been assisting on a live project and working on projects that had not started.I had expressed concerns in the weeks prior due to workload but my boss basically said we have no further resource.

    The week before last my daughter had an op and I was booked off for 1 day hols but needed two days due to complications before returning to work for 1 day prior to easter break. She has been unwell until this week and we have had many nights if broken sleep.

    I called in sick due to sickness and diarrhoea which I had but I believed it was stress related. I attended the doctors two days into my sickness due to my manager phoning me twice a day and requesting I see the doctor.

    I have issued a sicknote on the 3 rd day signing (until the 19th April) me off due to Family Circumstances rather than stress as I was unsure what to let the doctor put but she said she couldn't sign me off for two weeks (she advised 4 weeks) on the basis of sick and d. It's stress from work and my daughter's illness.

    I scanned and emailed this note to my line manager and they immediately queried the family circumstances. My doctor said they could not quesiton it.

    My line manager attended my home on 2pm Friday the 6th without notice. I was not in my mother in law had my children as I was trying to get some rest at my mum's hows some 8 miles away.

    I called him that evening and explained I was stressed due to workload and my daughters stressful time in the hospital and at home. He seemed fine with this and I agreed to contact him again on Wednesday the 11th.

    I have checked my work emails tonight and found a letter calling me to a meeting on the 16th at the head office some 54 miles away. This is to discuss concerns about my performance and absence, they are also asking why I said I had sickness and then the doctors sick note which they acknowledge says family circumstances. I have not been ill before and only had a day off for my daughter being in the hospital with complications from the op.

    I started a course of antidepressants last week and was starting to feel better but this had just made me worse.

    I am going to go and see my doctor tomorrow and get further advice but as I understand I am signed off and cannot be expected to attend a meeting about my work performance or absence.
Page 1
    • batg
    • By batg 10th Apr 18, 8:50 PM
    • 202 Posts
    • 321 Thanks
    batg
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 18, 8:50 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 18, 8:50 PM
    Is the employer paying you sick pay while you are off? Technically they could say that you aren't actually sick if the sicknote says "family circumstances".
    Could the doctor change it to anxiery
    afferent pupillary defect
    • Tigsteroonie
    • By Tigsteroonie 10th Apr 18, 8:56 PM
    • 22,853 Posts
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    Tigsteroonie
    • #3
    • 10th Apr 18, 8:56 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Apr 18, 8:56 PM
    as I understand I am signed off and cannot be expected to attend a meeting about my work performance or absence.
    Originally posted by surveyor_101
    Not necessarily. What does your staff sickness absence policy say? It is usual for regular contact to be maintained, and entirely sensible that a meeting be held to determine whether workload pressures have added to your family situation to result in this prolonged absence. Similarly it could be quite normal for such meetings to be held at your head office - we have no idea how often you go there, whether that is where your HR department is based etc.
    Mrs Marleyboy

    MSE: many of the benefits of a helpful family, without disadvantages like having to compete for the tv remote

    Proud Parents to an Au-some son
    • surveyor_101
    • By surveyor_101 10th Apr 18, 9:07 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    surveyor_101
    • #4
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:07 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:07 PM
    I was going to go and see the doctor tomorrow and ask for a revised note with stress and anxiety and look and a problem with my foot.

    It states concerns with my performance and absence which they have never said before. I just had a PDR with a good review. I don't get the impression its to help me more like they want rid.

    I have until 17.00 tomorrow to let them know if I need any help etc to attend the meeting.

    I am required to attend head office once a month normally.

    I will ask if my doctor will write to them but I do not feel well enough to attend the meeting and drive that far.

    Says regular contact by phone.

    I am on sick pay full for 4 weeks max. The policy says I have to be open to meet with a manager at my home not attend the office.

    I don't feel up to the meeting if my doctor confirms i AM
    • karxlee
    • By karxlee 10th Apr 18, 9:19 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    karxlee
    • #5
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:19 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:19 PM
    I work in HR and you need to obtain a copy of your companies absence policy, it will state in there what the process is they have to follow. You can contact your HR dept for this, they have to provide you with a copy.

    Reading what you have put it seems your manager is questioning the reason why you are off, it seems odd that they would turn up to your house unannounced.
    Are you in a union? If so I would advise you to speak to them, if you are not the you can call ACAS for advice.

    http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1461

    Did you document your concerns about your workload - via email or meetings book in with your manager?
    You need to document everything you have discussed and how you were feeling. If your work has something called occupational health then you can be asked to be referred, your company will then be obliged to consider OH recommendations.
    If you feel under stress then you must lodge that as the reason for your absence, you could also do with checking how long you get full sick pay for.
    If you do not feel up to traveling for the review you don't have to, you can ask for a meeting closer to your home. I would also take support with you so they can take notes whilst you concentrate on the conversation.
    I hope you feel better soon,
    • surveyor_101
    • By surveyor_101 10th Apr 18, 9:24 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    surveyor_101
    • #6
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:24 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:24 PM
    Can I ask for th meeting to be rescheduled for when I feel better?


    I was advised to turn my phone of and refrain from reading work emails as I need a break as it it!!!8217;s affectig my health.

    I happen to look this afternoon and saw this letter on an email.

    If my doctors feels this meeting will be damaging to my health can the write a letter saying this will make my stress work, assuming they issue a new sick note stating stress.

    I don!!!8217;t feel up to this meeting at the moment.

    I do have document emails expressing concerns about my work load.

    My contract says I agree to be interviewed by a member of management while off sick at any time at my home if necessary.
    Last edited by surveyor_101; 10-04-2018 at 9:31 PM.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 10th Apr 18, 9:30 PM
    • 17,155 Posts
    • 43,250 Thanks
    elsien
    • #7
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:30 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:30 PM
    Your doctor signing you off sick with family circumstances as the reason wasn't a great idea, because the implication is that you're not ill but need time off due to your family. This would generally be time taken as leave (paid or unpaid) so I can see why in those circumstances work are querying the reason.

    Your doctor is also incorrect in saying that they can't query the fit note - they can, and they can also ask you to attend occupational health appointments which could look at your fitness to work.

    As others have said, sickness policies usually have something in about regular contact. I'd suggest taking further advice and asking for any meetings to be more accessible.
    Why are you checking work emails? They should be contacting you on a your home address, preferably in writing.
    Last edited by elsien; 10-04-2018 at 9:32 PM.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 10th Apr 18, 9:35 PM
    • 6,586 Posts
    • 14,178 Thanks
    marliepanda
    • #8
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:35 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:35 PM
    You!!!8217;ve worked there 6/7 months tops?

    If you need the job I suggest you comply with the meetings.
    • karxlee
    • By karxlee 10th Apr 18, 9:36 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    karxlee
    • #9
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:36 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:36 PM
    If they want you to attend a meeting when you are off sick they MUST send you a letter to your home address, not to your work email because you shouldn't be checking your email.
    Have you acknowledged the email?
    Did it have a read receipt and did you accept the email?
    They have to give you 24 hours notice to attend an absence review, which they have if you have acknowledged the email.

    If your PDR was a 'Good' then they cannot just get rid as you say. If they have concerns with your performance then I would expect they have spoken to you about your performance and a support plan would be in place to help you to reach the desired level.

    You do have a duty to keep in touch with work and as long as you are doing this then you are following the policy.

    I notice you said you have 4 weeks full pay, I would take the time you need to relax, I don't think your doctor will write to your company, however I would speak to ACAS and they can offer some great support, it's free as well.

    Acas most asked !!!8211; Can an employee be dismissed whilst off sick?

    Something that we often get asked on the Acas helpline is whether you can dismiss somebody whilst they're on sick leave.

    The answer to this is that it is possible to proceed with the disciplinary hearing whilst someone's on sick leave, however the employer, should they choose to do that would need to take into account the reasons behind the sick leave.

    For example if the employees on short term sick leave they could consider postponing the meeting to a time when the employee may be fit to attend. If however the absence has more long-term the employer could consider making adjustments to their actual procedure.

    What needs to be balanced here is the process having to proceed without unreasonable
    delay with the employees opportunity to put forward their case. The Employer would have a duty to explore whether any adjustments would
    be appropriate for example if it would be more appropriate to attend at neutral venue or going to the employee's home to have a meeting
    • surveyor_101
    • By surveyor_101 10th Apr 18, 9:42 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    surveyor_101
    I donít feel up to traveling to bath.

    I am going to get the sick note revised tomorrow and advice form my doctor , I saw another doctor who issued the note.

    I have not acknowledged the letter and itís in the post apparently so they donít know I have seen it.

    I will write and say if it cannot be reschedule them I make myself available as per the time and date at my home for and interview with regard to my absence as per the terms of my contract.
    • karxlee
    • By karxlee 10th Apr 18, 9:43 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    karxlee
    Your doctor signing you off sick with family circumstances as the reason wasn't a great idea, because the implication is that you're not ill but need time off due to your family. This would generally be time taken as leave (paid or unpaid) so I can see why in those circumstances work are querying the reason.

    Your doctor is also incorrect in saying that they can't query the fit note - they can, and they can also ask you to attend occupational health appointments which could look at your fitness to work.

    As others have said, sickness policies usually have something in about regular contact. I'd suggest taking further advice and asking for any meetings to be more accessible.
    Why are you checking work emails? They should be contacting you on a your home address, preferably in writing.
    Originally posted by elsien
    I agree the reason you gave in the first instance wasn't a great idea, however it's done. The next sick note must state stress if that is what you feel.

    You need to stop checking your work email because that will not help how you are feeling.

    I hope your daughter is feeling better.
    • k3lvc
    • By k3lvc 10th Apr 18, 9:49 PM
    • 2,376 Posts
    • 3,933 Thanks
    k3lvc
    If your PDR was a 'Good' then they cannot just get rid as you say.
    Originally posted by karxlee
    With only 6-7 months service ?? I thought you worked in HR
    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 10th Apr 18, 9:53 PM
    • 9,030 Posts
    • 6,752 Thanks
    pmduk

    I am going to get the sick note revised tomorrow and advice form my doctor , I saw another doctor who issued the note.
    Originally posted by surveyor_101
    Remember, whatever your GP may suggest to the contrary, it is unlikely they know much about employment law.
    • karxlee
    • By karxlee 10th Apr 18, 10:05 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    karxlee
    With only 6-7 months service ?? I thought you worked in HR
    Originally posted by k3lvc
    And your point is?

    Depending on contracts you have a 12 week probationary period (depending on how big the company is) when you reach 6 months you are normally classed a 'in scope for PDR' the fact they have been given a Good means they must have been performing well, so to then be invited to a meeting about performance there needs to have been conversations prior about poor performance.

    Or are you going to disagree with that as well?
    • karxlee
    • By karxlee 10th Apr 18, 10:10 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    karxlee
    With only 6-7 months service ?? I thought you worked in HR
    Originally posted by k3lvc

    Reasons you can be dismissed

    There are some situations when your employer can dismiss you fairly.

    Not being able to do your job properly
    You may not be able to do your job properly if, for example, you:

    havenít been able to keep up with important changes to your job - eg a new computer system
    canít get along with your colleagues
    Before taking any action, your employer should:

    follow disciplinary procedures - eg warn you that your work isnít satisfactory
    give you a chance to improve - eg by training you


    Illness
    You can be dismissed if you have a persistent or long-term illness that makes it impossible for you to do your job.

    Before taking any action, your employer should:

    look for ways to support you - eg considering whether the job itself is making you sick and needs changing
    give you reasonable time to recover from your illness
    • elsien
    • By elsien 10th Apr 18, 10:49 PM
    • 17,155 Posts
    • 43,250 Thanks
    elsien

    Reasons you can be dismissed

    There are some situations when your employer can dismiss you fairly.

    Not being able to do your job properly
    You may not be able to do your job properly if, for example, you:

    haven!!!8217;t been able to keep up with important changes to your job - eg a new computer system
    can!!!8217;t get along with your colleagues
    Before taking any action, your employer should:

    follow disciplinary procedures - eg warn you that your work isn!!!8217;t satisfactory
    give you a chance to improve - eg by training you


    Illness
    You can be dismissed if you have a persistent or long-term illness that makes it impossible for you to do your job.

    Before taking any action, your employer should:

    look for ways to support you - eg considering whether the job itself is making you sick and needs changing
    give you reasonable time to recover from your illness
    Originally posted by karxlee
    And there is a very big difference between should and must.

    From gov.uk:

    Qualifying period to claim unfair dismissal. You must have worked for your employer for a minimum period before you qualify for the right to claim unfair dismissal at a tribunal. If you're classed as an employee and started your job: on or after 6 April 2012 - the qualifying period is normally 2 years.
    Last edited by elsien; 10-04-2018 at 10:51 PM.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Masomnia
    • By Masomnia 10th Apr 18, 11:09 PM
    • 17,346 Posts
    • 38,539 Thanks
    Masomnia
    Karxlee is right, in a way, assuming the employer is following what you might call best practice, and has comprehensive policies in line with ACAS guidelines that apply to all employees out of probation. And that they follow them.

    If you don't feel well enough to attend the meeting then ask to reschedule the meeting. Ask your doctor if they will confirm that, and if they will then tell your employer that the doctor will confirm it. Alternatively offer to hold the meeting over the phone.

    At the meeting be honest and tell them what you've told us, details of your illness, ie how your note came to say what it did, and give them permission to contact your doctor to confirm. I don't see what else you can do.
    ďI could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled.Ē - P.G. Wodehouse
    • John-K
    • By John-K 10th Apr 18, 11:12 PM
    • 654 Posts
    • 1,023 Thanks
    John-K
    If your PDR was a 'Good' then they cannot just get rid as you say.
    Originally posted by karxlee
    Of course they can.

    May I ask, as you clearly have no idea about employment law or Human Resources issues in the auK, why would you make things up and post about them?

    Does it give you some kind of kick to invent stuff like this when someone is asking for genuine advice.
    • Masomnia
    • By Masomnia 10th Apr 18, 11:23 PM
    • 17,346 Posts
    • 38,539 Thanks
    Masomnia
    Remember, whatever your GP may suggest to the contrary, it is unlikely they know much about employment law.
    Originally posted by pmduk
    Quite, and in this case the doctor is wrong. Employers can (and often should) query sick notes. In a situation like this where the absence is work related then asking the employee to meet with them is exactly the right thing to do.

    OP I think you have to ask yourself if it is the right job for you anyway if you are struggling getting up to 6 months.
    ďI could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled.Ē - P.G. Wodehouse
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 11th Apr 18, 7:22 AM
    • 16,957 Posts
    • 41,837 Thanks
    FBaby
    Frankly, if I were you, I'd be looking for another job. You say that you were given more responsibilities because there was no further resources, so you being off sick for that time will mean that your boss is probably themselves under great level of pressure and stress and their view will most likely be that they are coping and therefore expecting you too, especially if they do believe that this additional workload was manageable.

    They might be supportive, but there is a high chance that they won't. Taking 4 weeks off for stress after only 5 months in the job doesn't look great. If you then start to refuse to attend meetings etc..., they will only conclude that you just can't cope with the job, end of. They can ask you to go for no reason within 2 years and the way things are going, it is likely they consider it.

    You have two choices, trying to work with your boss, complying to requests and trying to find a right middle by which the work is done but you're able to cope with it, or you accept this job is not right for you and look for another one.
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