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  • FIRST POST
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 10th Feb 18, 4:26 PM
    • 1,307Posts
    • 3,308Thanks
    Iwanttobefree
    What happens when I cant pay?
    • #1
    • 10th Feb 18, 4:26 PM
    What happens when I cant pay? 10th Feb 18 at 4:26 PM
    Hi am on a DMP and owe about 22K to 10 different creditors (unsecured debts) and have been on it for a few years.

    I used to have £186 a month to share between them, but I have failed my medical to get ESA support and have just also failed my tribunal appeal.

    However both my physio and my GP say I must not work and my GP is signing me off indefinitely.

    The outcome of this means that as my wife works more than about 25 hours at minimum wage, I will get zero benefits, meaning we are £109 a week worse off.

    Until our mortgage finishes in about 7 years, we simply can no longer afford to pay them any more than £1.

    In 7 years they can have £300 between them.

    So what happens now?

    Sorry if I sound a bit blunt, am on the verge of simply giving up, I cant take much more of this stress.
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
Page 1
    • tallyhoh
    • By tallyhoh 11th Feb 18, 9:06 AM
    • 2,106 Posts
    • 2,165 Thanks
    tallyhoh
    • #2
    • 11th Feb 18, 9:06 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Feb 18, 9:06 AM
    Is there any chance you could claim working tax credit or pension credit (sorry not sure of your age)
    Tallyhoh!

    Stopped Smoking October 2000. Saved £21,840 so far!
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 11th Feb 18, 9:33 AM
    • 1,307 Posts
    • 3,308 Thanks
    Iwanttobefree
    • #3
    • 11th Feb 18, 9:33 AM
    • #3
    • 11th Feb 18, 9:33 AM
    Is there any chance you could claim working tax credit or pension credit (sorry not sure of your age)
    Originally posted by tallyhoh
    No unfortunately.
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 11th Feb 18, 10:09 AM
    • 13,727 Posts
    • 13,064 Thanks
    sourcrates
    • #4
    • 11th Feb 18, 10:09 AM
    • #4
    • 11th Feb 18, 10:09 AM
    Hi,

    You write and tell your creditors your situation has changed, back it up with evidence, and a copy of your budget, a letter from your doctor is also a good thing to include.

    They canít take what you donít have, so spending more money taking you to court, for no gain, is not feasible.

    Can I ask, is your house in joint names, or just yours ?
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 11th Feb 18, 2:13 PM
    • 12,163 Posts
    • 9,199 Thanks
    fatbelly
    • #5
    • 11th Feb 18, 2:13 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Feb 18, 2:13 PM
    Hi am on a DMP and owe about 22K to 10 different creditors (unsecured debts) and have been on it for a few years.

    I used to have £186 a month to share between them, but I have failed my medical to get ESA support and have just also failed my tribunal appeal.

    However both my physio and my GP say I must not work and my GP is signing me off indefinitely.

    The outcome of this means that as my wife works more than about 25 hours at minimum wage, I will get zero benefits, meaning we are £109 a week worse off.

    Until our mortgage finishes in about 7 years, we simply can no longer afford to pay them any more than £1.

    In 7 years they can have £300 between them.

    So what happens now?

    Sorry if I sound a bit blunt, am on the verge of simply giving up, I cant take much more of this stress.
    Originally posted by Iwanttobefree
    You have to understand the difference between priority and non-priority debt. Your mortgage (if in arrears) would be priority. If you are behind with council tax, or electricity or gas, they would all be priority - because these organisations can actually do something, like evict you or jail you or cut off your supply.

    The sort of debt that goes into a dmp is non-priority. Typically loans, credit cards, catalogues, old overdrafts. They can't do very much.

    If you can't pay them then it's no big deal. You could ask them to write the debt off (but they probably won't). You could pay them £1 a month for the next 1000 years (but there is no advantage to you in doing that) or you could leave the problem to them.

    Now they could take a court claim. It would be hard to enforce this. The best they could do would be a charging order but if the debt is in your name and the house is joint then it just gets recorded as a restriction at the Land Registry and we have a thread all about that (Charging Orders? The Myth). In most cases the debt just gets sold on and on for ever smaller amounts. After 6 years it becomes unenforceable.

    In your case your finances are about to take a hit of over £400 per month. Non-priority creditors are probably the least of your concerns. You need to be putting a budget together to allow you to live as best you can on what is coming in. I would suggest you revisit a benefits checker like Turn2Us - you're on very low income and anything you can get, like council tax support, would help. You have nothing to lose by starting a PIP claim.

    I would also suggest you get the best deals you can on electricity and gas but also stick to those who do Warm Home Discount as you are likely to be in the 'broader group' next winter and should pick up £140. Ovo and Eon are already in it and Bulb expected to join this year. Ovo and Eon have hardship schemes
    Last edited by fatbelly; 11-02-2018 at 2:24 PM.
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 11th Feb 18, 9:28 PM
    • 1,307 Posts
    • 3,308 Thanks
    Iwanttobefree
    • #6
    • 11th Feb 18, 9:28 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Feb 18, 9:28 PM
    Many thanks

    The house is in joint names.

    The debts are mainly in my wifes name with about 7k besom in my name (but we've been doing one DMP)

    I've been asking advice on employment in the employment section, one of the responses was

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=73865707&postcount=27

    In that case, you and your wife both need to work. You're not eligible for benefits and have debts. Failure to pay them could result in a Charging Order or even an Order for Sale.
    But that thread has got very judgmental by a couple of posters and I haven't got the energy or willpower to stay in it anymore.

    In fact as the days go by, I have less and less willpower to do anything and more and more often while I have no suicidal thoughts as such, I really wish I would go to bed tonight and simply not wake up. The thought of this for years to come, and the judgmental comets by those that don't understand, well I think I'll be giving this site a miss for the next few months.
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 11th Feb 18, 9:39 PM
    • 13,727 Posts
    • 13,064 Thanks
    sourcrates
    • #7
    • 11th Feb 18, 9:39 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Feb 18, 9:39 PM
    Don;t take heed of the trolls.

    You have come to the right place.

    Orders for sale are so rare nowadays that the number of them granted is no longer recorded.

    A charging order will not be granted either, it would only be a restriction, as the house is in joint names.

    Fatbelly gives you the route to take above.

    Creditors will not take legal action if they know your budget cannot sustain payments of any kind, they don;t want to waste any more money for no return.
    Last edited by sourcrates; 11-02-2018 at 9:44 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 11th Feb 18, 9:56 PM
    • 12,163 Posts
    • 9,199 Thanks
    fatbelly
    • #8
    • 11th Feb 18, 9:56 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Feb 18, 9:56 PM
    Carry on posting here. My previous post was based on you not being well enough to work as that was what you stated quite clearly.

    If your health improves to the point where you can work, that's great - the right job can act as therapy as well as generating an income. I'm lucky enough to have found a niche like that. But I work every day with clients who struggle to find something suitable, and your health is the starting point for everything in life.
    • tallyhoh
    • By tallyhoh 12th Feb 18, 8:19 AM
    • 2,106 Posts
    • 2,165 Thanks
    tallyhoh
    • #9
    • 12th Feb 18, 8:19 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Feb 18, 8:19 AM
    Have you applied for PIP?
    Tallyhoh!

    Stopped Smoking October 2000. Saved £21,840 so far!
    • Purplemumof2
    • By Purplemumof2 12th Feb 18, 8:49 AM
    • 6,006 Posts
    • 21,931 Thanks
    Purplemumof2
    Hi Iwanttobefree,

    Please keep posting, you'll get plenty of support here.

    Sending lots of hugs your way xx
    Official DFW Nerd Club - Member no. 791 - Proud to be dealing with my debts
    MBNA: £6500.00 Cap 1: £417.28 BC: £8224.59 (temporary)
    AFD xxx LTW 12/16
    POAMAYC 2018 #041 PD £3790.84/£7000
    Savings for Christmas £131.00/£365
    20p Savers 2018 £2 Savers 2018 50p Savers 2018 SPC 11 2018 #003
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 12th Feb 18, 10:09 AM
    • 1,307 Posts
    • 3,308 Thanks
    Iwanttobefree
    Thanks all

    My one main concern is Creation Finance. if your short on time, skip next bit.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    Short version, they have been a pain, I complained to the financial ombudsman, the financial ombudsman in the way they handled my complaint, in my opinion is not fit for purpose.

    They found in favour of Creation in every aspect.

    Stupid things like me keeping copies of all the letters I sent them over 3 years, each time asking to only deal in writing, them denying receiving them, even though they were all sent recorded.

    Ombudsman saying that as I cant prove I actually sent them, they are choosing to believe Creation that they never received them.

    I even had a screen shot of me logged into my creation account where I typed a message to them in 2014 stating I only want to deal in writing, but the ombudsman said that all that proves is I was logged into the account and had typed that info in, it doesn't prove I clicked send.

    In the end (after their findings) I completely lost it with them, asked them if they really thought I had typed various letters over the course of 3 years just to keep on my PC for fun.

    Likewise while I said I borrowed the money hence should pay it back, I also questioned Creation for lending us more credit when we were always up to their limit.

    I gave the ombudsman the following example.

    If I went round your house for dinner and said:

    Me: I'm a little stressed, lent a friend some money and they haven't paid it back"

    Me they asked me if I could lend then £5000 5 years ago and I said yes, and said they could pay me back when they wanted, provided they pay a minimum of £50 a month.

    Me: They only ever paid the £50 back. I felt a little sorry for them, so sent them another £1000, but they still only paid the minimum each month.

    Me: after a couple of years I felt sorry for them again and sent them another £1000

    Me: Then a couple of years latter my friend and his wife both asked me if I could lend them each some more money, so I lent them another £5000 each.

    Me: Now they say they can't afford to pay me the minimum amount anymore, I feel really angry towards them.

    I suspect your reply would be

    You: Why on earth were you stupid enough to give them more money when they were obviously struggling to repay back the initial loan, to be honest, it's your own stupid fault.

    That is how the banks etc act every single day of the week, that is effectively how Creation (or Sygma) acted towards us, that is why thousands of people are in debt up to their eyeballs with no hope of paying it back for many of them, that is why some are driven to suicide. It may be legal, but it's wrong.
    Anyway, here's an actual quote of part of their findings.

    The business has provided a copy of their application opening process. Having reviewed it, the application process is mainly an automated assessment where the decision is to either
    accept or decline applications for credit. Applications which do not fit into either category are referred to an underwriter to undergo a manual assessment. Your application received automatic acceptance and therefore was not referred to an underwriter
    In other words, as it's automated, they aren't responsible for accepting my application ?

    They also stated
    Sygma stated that credit limit increases from account opening until July 2015 went through the same type of review. They advised the limit increases and decreases are as follows:

    !!!61623; 08/10/2012 increase from £4,000 to £5000
    !!!61623; 08/04/2013 increase from £5,000 to £6,000
    !!!61623; 08/06/2013 increase from £6,000 to £6,500
    !!!61623; 09/12/2013 increase from £6,500 to £7,500
    !!!61623; 06/02/2014 decrease from £7,500 to £6,500

    When increasing credit limits, Sygma advised they notify consumers via letter. They have been unable to provide the actual letters they sent you, however they have provided a template. Having reviewed the template, I am satisfied they gave you the option to opt out.

    Sygma stated you accepted the increases and did not contact them decline them or to be excluded from future increases. Even if these letters were not sent, I do not think it is unreasonable for you for to have called or contacted the business to decrease the limit.
    The contact notes do not show you contacted them to decrease the limit.

    And so on.

    Completely ignoring the fact that I wasn't in my right frame of mind when applying for credit in the first place, this was at a particularly low part of my illness when I wasn't thinking straight at all, and ignoring the fact I was always maxed out and only made minimum repayments.

    This is the very very very short version of our communications.

    They even didn't uphold Creation calling my wife over 48 times in 2 weeks as harassment.

    Anyway, that aside

    -----------------------------------------------------------

    We have 3 accounts with creation.

    Wife account 1 owes £6004
    Wife account 2 owes £4456
    My account £4456

    While the house is in both of our names, as we both owe debts to the same company, could that increase the chance of them forcing us to sell?
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 12th Feb 18, 10:43 AM
    • 1,307 Posts
    • 3,308 Thanks
    Iwanttobefree
    I've never thought of applying for PIP, I will do so, thanks
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 12th Feb 18, 11:25 AM
    • 13,727 Posts
    • 13,064 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Thanks all

    My one main concern is Creation Finance. if your short on time, skip next bit.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    Short version, they have been a pain, I complained to the financial ombudsman, the financial ombudsman in the way they handled my complaint, in my opinion is not fit for purpose.

    They found in favour of Creation in every aspect.

    Stupid things like me keeping copies of all the letters I sent them over 3 years, each time asking to only deal in writing, them denying receiving them, even though they were all sent recorded.

    Ombudsman saying that as I cant prove I actually sent them, they are choosing to believe Creation that they never received them.

    I even had a screen shot of me logged into my creation account where I typed a message to them in 2014 stating I only want to deal in writing, but the ombudsman said that all that proves is I was logged into the account and had typed that info in, it doesn't prove I clicked send.

    In the end (after their findings) I completely lost it with them, asked them if they really thought I had typed various letters over the course of 3 years just to keep on my PC for fun.

    Likewise while I said I borrowed the money hence should pay it back, I also questioned Creation for lending us more credit when we were always up to their limit.

    I gave the ombudsman the following example.



    Anyway, here's an actual quote of part of their findings.



    In other words, as it's automated, they aren't responsible for accepting my application ?

    They also stated


    And so on.

    Completely ignoring the fact that I wasn't in my right frame of mind when applying for credit in the first place, this was at a particularly low part of my illness when I wasn't thinking straight at all, and ignoring the fact I was always maxed out and only made minimum repayments.

    This is the very very very short version of our communications.

    They even didn't uphold Creation calling my wife over 48 times in 2 weeks as harassment.

    Anyway, that aside

    -----------------------------------------------------------

    We have 3 accounts with creation.

    Wife account 1 owes £6004
    Wife account 2 owes £4456
    My account £4456

    While the house is in both of our names, as we both owe debts to the same company, could that increase the chance of them forcing us to sell?
    Originally posted by Iwanttobefree
    The situation you describe is all too prevalent in the banking sector, and to be honest, the ombudsman is pretty much useless in these situations, the company tells them there version of !!!!!!!!, back it up with dubious evidence, and the ombudsman believes them.

    Its the same for dubious debt collectors, they lie through their teeth, and the FOS don`t challenge them, i agree its a stupid situation.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 12th Feb 18, 1:16 PM
    • 1,307 Posts
    • 3,308 Thanks
    Iwanttobefree
    still at it on the employment thread I asked for advice about employment on.

    Normally I would ignore it, but am so stressed at the moment, the last thing I need is for someone that knows nothing about how my health is, to accuse me of basically lying.

    Yet another case of 'the truth hurts'
    Originally posted by Cheeky_Monkey
    just makes me feel like giving up on this forum altohether.

    I know you tell me to ignore the trolls, but all I did was ask for advice on getting work while signed off sick, people asked follow up questions and I replied.

    Getting told the truth hurts, when they have no idea of the truth, is more than annoying in my current state of mind.

    I find it abhorrent that in a thread where all I did was I ask for advice, and explain why I couldn't do some of the responses. I am judged in that way.

    I need to take a break for a few days thanks to a few posters.
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
    • Purplemumof2
    • By Purplemumof2 12th Feb 18, 1:18 PM
    • 6,006 Posts
    • 21,931 Thanks
    Purplemumof2
    It so annoying when people can't be supportive and offer proper advice.

    Please don't give up posting on here at least, these lot are a really friendly bunch of people and will do all they can to help xx
    Official DFW Nerd Club - Member no. 791 - Proud to be dealing with my debts
    MBNA: £6500.00 Cap 1: £417.28 BC: £8224.59 (temporary)
    AFD xxx LTW 12/16
    POAMAYC 2018 #041 PD £3790.84/£7000
    Savings for Christmas £131.00/£365
    20p Savers 2018 £2 Savers 2018 50p Savers 2018 SPC 11 2018 #003
    • January2015
    • By January2015 12th Feb 18, 1:22 PM
    • 2,054 Posts
    • 5,125 Thanks
    January2015
    Other forums, even on MSE, can feel as though people are being hurtful / trolling. At least on the DFW thread most of us have been deep in debt and are able to relate to your situation. For that reason the majority of advice and support you receive on DFW is non-judgemental. Don't give up on posting on the DFW pages
    DFW Nerd No. 1484 LBM 07/01/15 Debt was £95k I'm driving it down
    £1k emergency fund (member #84) £1k/£1k
    [COLOR=Blue][SIZE=2]
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 12th Feb 18, 2:36 PM
    • 11,405 Posts
    • 13,292 Thanks
    pmlindyloo
    I have read all of your posts and have 'migrated' from the Benefits forum to here.

    I have to agree with the last poster (January2015) that you should concentrate on getting your finances sorted - i.e to increase your income and cut down on your expenditure and the best advice will come from this forum.

    You have to accept that you are not entitled to any Universal Credit because of your wife working and, at the moment, you are not fit for work.

    From a benefits point of view you could investigate PIP and I would recommend getting some help from CAB or a welfare specialist to make an application. If this is impossible then there is a good guide here:

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-claim/fill-in-form/

    Personally having read about your outgoings I would think it would be helpful to post a SOA (others will tell you how)

    You could then focus on reducing your expenditure (if this is possible)

    I have every sympathy for you but as you have said many times we do not know you and how your illnesses affect you. We cannot really help you with applying for jobs because of this and, to be honest, it only makes you angrier when people offer suggestions because, as you say, 'they do not know you'.

    By posting on these other forums you are becoming increasingly stressed so please take a rest from those forums and concentrate on your finances.
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 12th Feb 18, 2:47 PM
    • 13,727 Posts
    • 13,064 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Every now and then we have had a number of offensive and insensitive comments made on the DFW board, and other boards.

    What do we mean by this?
    A person that posts deliberately provocative, nasty or hurtful comments on threads is know as a Troll. They may be a person with no previous connection to the board, someone that has created a pseudonym to get their point made or a poster who has been a member here for a long time.
    If you should get such a comment made on any thread you post, please realise this comment is not directed at you personally so please ignore these nasty comments and continue to post here as normal because the majority of us really are a lovely bunch !! ooops, modesty! That said there are different writing styles; some brief and some harsh but helpful. If you happen to read them when you are not going through such an emotional time, you may find you are not as offended. So if they have upset you please try not to respond angrily. Most people are simply trying to help.

    What should I do if I get a comment made on my thread?
    Firstly do not respond to the comment as this is invariably what the troll wants.
    To get rid of the offending post, click on the Report icon at the bottom of their post, as shown below:

    or

    Fill in the form which will alert the MSE team, who will then review its content and deal with it as appropriate; sometimes even deleting the Poster by making their status PPR`d (Posting Privileges Removed). Remember, this site is an asset to so many people, especially those that feels like their world is falling in around them. There is a wealth of knowledgeable people here all willing to help, whatever you do, do not let the comments of one silly individual deter you from availing yourself of the knowledge base that is on offer here.

    PLEASE DO NOT LEAVE THE FORUM

    It is testament to the work that Martin has done and continues to do that so many people give their time, knowledge and experience freely to others; without judgement, to lift people out of the depths of their debt crisis


    PLEASE DO NOT LET THE ACTIONS OF THE MINORITY RUIN THAT
    Last edited by sourcrates; 12-02-2018 at 2:50 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • CapricornLass
    • By CapricornLass 12th Feb 18, 4:59 PM
    • 140 Posts
    • 443 Thanks
    CapricornLass
    RE Creation Finance: I'm assuming that you still have the slips from the Post Office to prove that you sent your letters by recorded delivery? If so, have you thought about writing to your MP about how you have been treated by the Ombudsman? He/she should be able to persue it further for you, especially if you are able to send copies of the proofs and letters as well. Or perhaps catch him/her at one of their constituency surgeries ( library might be able to advise as to when and where these are held, or look online.)

    I have to admit, MPs vary in how efficient they are, and I wouldn't want to raise your hopes up unduly, On the otherhand, you never know, they might just be able to sort things out for you. The worst that can happen is that you get the parliamentary equivalent of a 'Dear John' letter.

    But only if you feel physically well enough to do it.
    Sealed Pot Challenge no 265.
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 12th Feb 18, 5:55 PM
    • 12,163 Posts
    • 9,199 Thanks
    fatbelly
    While the house is in both of our names, as we both owe debts to the same company, could that increase the chance of them forcing us to sell?
    Originally posted by Iwanttobefree
    No .
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