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  • FIRST POST
    • DavidJulie1955
    • By DavidJulie1955 6th Jan 18, 10:10 AM
    • 2Posts
    • 0Thanks
    DavidJulie1955
    UK State Pension.
    • #1
    • 6th Jan 18, 10:10 AM
    UK State Pension. 6th Jan 18 at 10:10 AM
    I have recently written to Conor McGinn M.P. for St Helens



    In 2013 I have told that the Department of Works and Pensions issued a white paper on the new UK State Pension. It was decided that going forward all UK residents that payed all the required number of years of national insurance contributions would then receive the NEW BASIC STATE PENSION
    Of 159.55 per week.

    My date of birth is 21/09/1955. As we all know due to the recent changes I will not receive my State Pension till I reach 66.

    In 2012 I requested an estimate of my State Pension and on 23/07/2012 I was advised the following:-

    Basic State Pension = 107.45 per week
    Additional State Pension = 60.00 per week
    Graduated Retirement Benefit = 1.25 per week.
    Total State Pension = 168.70.


    I recently applied on line to the Department of Works and Pensions on 29/12/2017 and received an updated estimate.

    My new State Pension will be 193.25 per week when I reach 66.

    I enquired how this figure was created. Reluctantly the person I spoke to told me the following calculation that the UK Government have instructed them to follow:-

    Under the Old State Pension rules my State Pension had increased from 107.45 per week to 122.30 per week. My additional benefits had
    increased from 61.25 per week to 70.95 week. Their calculations then gave the new total state pension of 193.25 per week.

    I enquired why the calculation started with the lower figure from the old state pension rules and not follow the new rules starting the calculation
    Of the new State Pension of 159.55 per week and then add the additional benefit of 70.95 per week giving me a new state
    Pension of 230.50. I was told that the new rules do not allow this.

    As you can clearly see I will receive 37.25 per week less that I believe I should which is 1937.00 per year.

    Based on the change in the age using their lower figure of 193.25 per week I have already lost 10083.51 in that year together with the
    Extra payment I firmly believe I should get of 1937.00 per year the total now is some 12020.51.

    I have all the documents to support the above and would welcome the opportunity to show them to you and if possible I would like to request that you ask the following question in the House of Commons: -

    Due to the recent changes in the Department of Works and Pension in the white paper of 2013 there are people that are reaching pensionable age who are being miss-treated. Please therefore could I ask the Government to confirm how many people are affected by this. (Please give them my details to support the question). What cost would it be to rectify this? For the record all these people have paid their full required contributions to receive their State Pension and others have paid extra in to the pension scheme to receive a higher pension.
    I welcome other views on this.
Page 1
    • hugheskevi
    • By hugheskevi 6th Jan 18, 10:44 AM
    • 1,989 Posts
    • 2,481 Thanks
    hugheskevi
    • #2
    • 6th Jan 18, 10:44 AM
    • #2
    • 6th Jan 18, 10:44 AM
    In 2013 I have told that the Department of Works and Pensions issued a white paper on the new UK State Pension.
    Which progressed to become Pension Act 2014, which is the legislative basis for the new State Pension scheme.

    It was decided that going forward all UK residents that payed all the required number of years of national insurance contributions would then receive the NEW BASIC STATE PENSION Of 159.55 per week.
    The new State Pension applies to all those reaching State Pension age on or after 6 April 2016. The standard rate is 159.55 in 2017/18, but in the early years of the new pension most will not receive that amount (some get more, some get less).

    In 2012 I requested an estimate of my State Pension and on 23/07/2012 I was advised the following:-

    Basic State Pension = 107.45 per week
    Additional State Pension = 60.00 per week
    Graduated Retirement Benefit = 1.25 per week.
    Total State Pension = 168.70.
    So your starting amount for the new State Pension will be based on this amount. Further details set out at this link.

    Under the Old State Pension rules my State Pension had increased from 107.45 per week to 122.30 per week. My additional benefits had increased from 61.25 per week to 70.95 week. Their calculations then gave the new total state pension of 193.25 per week.
    You continued to accrue pension under the old system until 6 April 2016.

    On 6 April 2016 your old State Pension was converted into new State Pension. This consists of a full new State Pension (159.55) plus a protected payment which is the remainder of the value of your pension calculated under the old State Pension rules.

    As you have a full new State Pension you ceased to accrue any more pension after 6 April 2016. Your new State Pension increases in line with the Triple Lock (best of earnings, CPI and 2.5%) and your protected payment increased by CPI from April 2016.

    I enquired why the calculation started with the lower figure from the old state pension rules and not follow the new rules starting the calculation
    Of the new State Pension of 159.55 per week and then add the additional benefit of 70.95 per week giving me a new state
    Pension of 230.50. I was told that the new rules do not allow this.
    You were informed correctly.

    The rules are intended to avoid individuals getting large unexpected gains in their State Pension entitlement due to a change in the calculation methodology whilst protecting pensions accrued which are higher than the new State Pension. You will receive the pension you had accrued at the the date of the change, with cost of living increases.

    As you can clearly see I will receive 37.25 per week less that I believe I should which is 1937.00 per year.
    You will receive your statutory entitlement. What you believe you should receive is not relevant.

    Based on the change in the age using their lower figure of 193.25 per week I have already lost 10083.51 in that year together with the Extra payment I firmly believe I should get of 1937.00 per year the total now is some 12020.51.
    I may firmly believe the State should provide me with a Ferrari, but my MP is unlikely to be able to assist me. Although he would probably write me a polite response should I ask him, which is probably what you will receive, along with a reply from DWP setting out the relevant rules on calculating your pension entitlement. What matters is your legislative entitlement.

    Due to the recent changes in the Department of Works and Pension in the white paper of 2013 there are people that are reaching pensionable age who are being miss-treated.
    That is a subjective view. Personally I would be aghast if those close to State Pension age were given large unexpected gains when they are already going to receive more than all future pensioners, and at an earlier age.

    For the record all these people have paid their full required contributions to receive their State Pension and others have paid extra in to the pension scheme to receive a higher pension.
    That is the key point - you are going to receive what you paid for, not a large additional amount just because the rules changed when you were close to State Pension age.

    I welcome other views on this.
    You are wasting your MP's time. There is no chance at the current time that the Government are going to legislate to increase the pensions of those close to retirement to give them large unexpected increases to their pensions.
    Last edited by hugheskevi; 06-01-2018 at 11:12 AM.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 6th Jan 18, 12:49 PM
    • 18,807 Posts
    • 12,991 Thanks
    molerat
    • #3
    • 6th Jan 18, 12:49 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Jan 18, 12:49 PM
    So you believe you should receive both the new higher pension and the old additional pension. I am afraid it doesn't work like that, you can't have the best bits of both. You receive the higher of the new maximum 159.65 or the old 122.30 plus additional pension. I am sure if you asked nicely they would let you have just the new (lower) 159.65.
    Last edited by molerat; 06-01-2018 at 1:24 PM.
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 6th Jan 18, 3:35 PM
    • 2,260 Posts
    • 1,529 Thanks
    Tom99
    • #4
    • 6th Jan 18, 3:35 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Jan 18, 3:35 PM
    I have 41 years NI contributions but will only get 123 per week so you are lucky.
    • hyubh
    • By hyubh 6th Jan 18, 8:38 PM
    • 2,149 Posts
    • 1,661 Thanks
    hyubh
    • #5
    • 6th Jan 18, 8:38 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Jan 18, 8:38 PM
    I have 41 years NI contributions but will only get 123 per week so you are lucky.
    Originally posted by Tom99
    In which case, you've been contracted out. Fat final salary pension perchance...?
    • LHW99
    • By LHW99 6th Jan 18, 8:42 PM
    • 1,325 Posts
    • 1,220 Thanks
    LHW99
    • #6
    • 6th Jan 18, 8:42 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Jan 18, 8:42 PM
    And don't even considered mentioning WASPE
    • hyubh
    • By hyubh 6th Jan 18, 8:51 PM
    • 2,149 Posts
    • 1,661 Thanks
    hyubh
    • #7
    • 6th Jan 18, 8:51 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Jan 18, 8:51 PM
    I enquired why the calculation started with the lower figure from the old state pension rules and not follow the new rules starting the calculation
    Of the new State Pension of 159.55 per week and then add the additional benefit of 70.95 per week giving me a new state
    Pension of 230.50. I was told that the new rules do not allow this.

    As you can clearly see I will receive 37.25 per week less that I believe I should which is 1937.00 per year.
    Originally posted by DavidJulie1955
    I think the nub is that you are confusing the new state pension with the old Basic State Pension, when in reality it replaces both that and the old State Second Pension (and before that, SERPS). In other words, people of a generation younger than you but with a similar work history will only ever be able to earn the 159.55 in today's terms.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 7th Jan 18, 1:58 PM
    • 25,589 Posts
    • 15,116 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #8
    • 7th Jan 18, 1:58 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Jan 18, 1:58 PM
    I have 41 years NI contributions but will only get 123 per week so you are lucky.
    You have obtained a new state pension statement?

    https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

    https://www.royallondon.com/Global/documents/GoodWithYourMoney/TOPPING-UP-YOUR-STATE-PENSION-GUIDE.pdf
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 7th Jan 18, 2:43 PM
    • 25,589 Posts
    • 15,116 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #9
    • 7th Jan 18, 2:43 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Jan 18, 2:43 PM
    My new State Pension will be 193.25 per week when I reach 66.
    You were never contracted out and had 40 years + NI at 6.4.16?

    Then your starting amount as at 6.4.16 was the higher of

    Full BSP (119.30) +SERPS +S2P (old rules)

    or Full NSP 155.65. (new rules).

    In your case, the old rules calculation was the higher of the two and gave you an amount higher than a full NSP. This gives you NSP plus a "protected payment".

    You cannot accrue any more SP with contributions.

    The full NSP increases by (at the moment) the "triple link" and the "Protected Payment" by CPI.

    The 2013 documents

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/181229/single-tier-pension.pdf

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/204604/single-tier-pension-transition-technical-note.pdf
    Last edited by xylophone; 08-01-2018 at 10:29 PM. Reason: typo
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 8th Jan 18, 10:15 AM
    • 2,873 Posts
    • 4,098 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    DavidJulie1955 - I suggest that you read the White Paper properly before embarrassing yourself further.

    In a nutshell, the long term aim of the new single tier pension is that everyone with the requisite number of full NI contributions will receive the flat rate 159 per week.

    In the meantime, transitional protections have been set in place to ensure that no-one will get less than the pension they expected under the old rules. In your case, that's the old basic State pension plus SERPS/SP2.

    Nowhere in the White Paper does it say that you can cherry pick a combination of the old and new schemes just because you fancy a few bob extra.
    Last edited by Silvertabby; 08-01-2018 at 10:17 AM.
    • hyubh
    • By hyubh 8th Jan 18, 10:13 PM
    • 2,149 Posts
    • 1,661 Thanks
    hyubh
    DavidJulie1955 - I suggest that you read the White Paper properly before embarrassing yourself further.

    In a nutshell, the long term aim of the new single tier pension is that everyone with the requisite number of full NI contributions will receive the flat rate 159 per week.

    In the meantime, transitional protections have been set in place to ensure that no-one will get less than the pension they expected under the old rules. In your case, that's the old basic State pension plus SERPS/SP2.

    Nowhere in the White Paper does it say that you can cherry pick a combination of the old and new schemes just because you fancy a few bob extra.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    Hmm, bit harsh. If the OP hadn't maxed out his possible SERPS+S2P at the point contracting-out ceased, then he has lost out, albeit not for the reason he thought.
    • Daniel54
    • By Daniel54 8th Jan 18, 10:22 PM
    • 605 Posts
    • 707 Thanks
    Daniel54
    Hmm, bit harsh. If the OP hadn't maxed out his possible SERPS+S2P at the point contracting-out ceased, then he has lost out, albeit not for the reason he thought.
    Originally posted by hyubh
    Not really.If his starting amount as at 6.4.16 were less than the NSP then contributions from 16/17 onwards would increase his state pension amount ( or he could buy those post 2016 years at an attractive rate ).
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 8th Jan 18, 11:04 PM
    • 25,589 Posts
    • 15,116 Thanks
    xylophone
    If his starting amount as at 6.4.16 were less than the NSP
    It wasn't - even in 2012 his state pension under the old rules had reached 168.70 which was more than the NSP at inception in April 2016 (155.65).

    If were continuing to work and pay NI to his SPA and NSP had not been introduced, then his BSP would be increasing by triple lock and he would have been accruing some S2P.
    • hyubh
    • By hyubh 9th Jan 18, 12:47 AM
    • 2,149 Posts
    • 1,661 Thanks
    hyubh
    Not really.If his starting amount as at 6.4.16 were less than the NSP then contributions from 16/17 onwards would increase his state pension amount ( or he could buy those post 2016 years at an attractive rate ).
    Originally posted by Daniel54
    As xylophone says, it wasn't. However even if it were, then his prospective state pension rights would have become capped to the single tier amount, which (by design) is less than the old BSP+S2P for a strong majority of workers who were only ever going to be in contracted-in employment anyway.
    • DavidJulie1955
    • By DavidJulie1955 9th Jan 18, 9:24 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    DavidJulie1955
    State Pension.
    I do not need to read the white paper which is written by the Government for the Government without any consultation with all the people who contributed to their state pension.

    It is called a democracy.

    However if you would take the time to read you will find that the majority of people in our country fall in to 3 categories:-
    Receiving Benefits- such as Alcoholics who receive 80.00 per week to buy their alcohol so they do not steal.
    People out of work who know how to obtain all the benefits.
    Old Age Pensioners who through no fault of theirs are unable to decipher the truth from lies.

    During the debate to leave the EU a labour party MP stated that if the majority voted to leave then they would increase the benefits for all the people who in their opinion needed support using the money we contributed to pay for it. BINGO the majority as outlined above voted to leave.

    The Labour MP was asked the following day would this be in their manifesto. The MP stated that they had not quite got their numbers right but they would increase some benefits. The MP was asked did he lie then? However due to Parliamentary Privilege he did not have to answer.

    All of the above is correct but I doubt you will have the character to accept that you are wrong not me.
    • hyubh
    • By hyubh 9th Jan 18, 10:27 PM
    • 2,149 Posts
    • 1,661 Thanks
    hyubh
    I do not need to read the white paper which is written by the Government for the Government without any consultation with all the people who contributed to their state pension.

    It is called a democracy.

    However if you would take the time to read you will find that the majority of people in our country fall in to 3 categories:-
    Receiving Benefits- such as Alcoholics who receive 80.00 per week to buy their alcohol so they do not steal.
    People out of work who know how to obtain all the benefits.
    Old Age Pensioners who through no fault of theirs are unable to decipher the truth from lies.

    During the debate to leave the EU a labour party MP stated that if the majority voted to leave then they would increase the benefits for all the people who in their opinion needed support using the money we contributed to pay for it. BINGO the majority as outlined above voted to leave.

    The Labour MP was asked the following day would this be in their manifesto. The MP stated that they had not quite got their numbers right but they would increase some benefits. The MP was asked did he lie then? However due to Parliamentary Privilege he did not have to answer.

    All of the above is correct but I doubt you will have the character to accept that you are wrong not me.
    Originally posted by DavidJulie1955
    I'm feeling a bit dizzy by the ride Not reading government policy papers is the key to democracy, and as such, working-age benefit claimants are the devil but pensioner claimants are saintly, ripped-off figures. Even though the people rightly didn't read government policy papers during the Brexit referendum, things went off course when an unnamed MP for a Remainer party made a dubious argument in favour of Leave, which voters bought en masse. All in all, this sorry situation means you personally deserve a state pension above what you were going to get...?
    Last edited by hyubh; 09-01-2018 at 10:33 PM.
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