Lorry driver: 'I feel like a prisoner in my own lorry'

I think that is a reflection of the fundamental flaw of the general remain argument (I say this as someone who voted remain, though not sure I would do again in hindsight) - "economic prosperity" is defined in terms such as GDP, growth and other factors which are meaningless to the majority of people - things which are meaningful - job stability, disposable income, quality of life, education and healthcare standards etc have trended downward for many years, but of course none of that matters if a few arrows on some economists' graph point upwards.

davomcdave wrote: »

The problem with this argument is that it's bunkum. Employment is at rates never seen before, unemployment is at little more than zero once you take out people between jobs and those that simply don't want to work. Disposable, real incomes are close to all-time highs. Life expectancy rises every year and children are better educated than at any time in our history.

It's hard to know why so many people feel like you. My guess is it's the rise in the whole Instagram culture where we routinely see people that are spectacularly rich in quite intimate ways. Whereas in the past the life of a film star seemed to be unimaginable, now you can see them having lunch and probably taking a dump (maybe I watch different films to you, ahem). Why as once the rich 'n' famous were completely removed from us now we expect to have the same things they do.

Seriously, if you think you're hard done by take a look at the life of people in the poorest countries in the world or how people lived in this country 40 years ago or even 100.

It's also pointless to do these "those days vs now" comparisons. So many things have changed.

We are talking about Romanian drivers here, so we should consider employment across the European piece, not UK.

Once you widen the labour pool it seems inevitable to me that you can treat certain common types of labour as pure commodity.

kabayiri wrote: »

It's also pointless to do these "those days vs now" comparisons. So many things have changed.

We are talking about Romanian drivers here, so we should consider employment across the European piece, not UK.

Once you widen the labour pool it seems inevitable to me that you can treat certain common types of labour as pure commodity.

Whatever. I'm sure before the EU came along truck drivers rode a gravy train with biscuit wheels and bathed in asses milk every night.

The rest of my point is completely accurate.

Highest ever disposable income? That was the quarter before last. Highest ever employment rate. Now. Highest ever life expectancy? Now. Highest ever education levels? Now. You actually have never had it so good.

The wages of the poorest are rising fastest of all. Income inequality is at it's lowest point for decades.

If you look internationally things are even better. People are getting richer and loads of people are moving out of poverty. Absolute poverty has fallen in terms of absolute numbers even as the population has grown. Despite the best efforts of some anti-science fools in the West, the numbers of people being vaccinated is rising fast. AIDS and malaria are starting to have less of an impact on poor people as ARVs are sold very cheaply, often below cost, by Big Pharma in poor countries and charities like the Gates Foundation use evidence based giving and so do cheap, effective things like distributing mosquito nets and draining standing water to fight malaria.

The world is getting better almost by the day and we're all too stupid to even notice.

AFF8879 wrote: »

I think that is a reflection of the fundamental flaw of the general remain argument (I say this as someone who voted remain, though not sure I would do again in hindsight) - "economic prosperity" is defined in terms such as GDP, growth and other factors which are meaningless to the majority of people - things which are meaningful - job stability, disposable income, quality of life, education and healthcare standards etc have trended downward for many years, but of course none of that matters if a few arrows on some economists' graph point upwards.

whoops...should have read all the replies first, but agree with this

davomcdave wrote: »

The problem with this argument is that it's bunkum. Employment is at rates never seen before, unemployment is at little more than zero once you take out people between jobs and those that simply don't want to work. Disposable, real incomes are close to all-time highs. Life expectancy rises every year and children are better educated than at any time in our history.

It's hard to know why so many people feel like you. My guess is it's the rise in the whole Instagram culture where we routinely see people that are spectacularly rich in quite intimate ways. Whereas in the past the life of a film star seemed to be unimaginable, now you can see them having lunch and probably taking a dump (maybe I watch different films to you, ahem). Why as once the rich 'n' famous were completely removed from us now we expect to have the same things they do.

Seriously, if you think you're hard done by take a look at the life of people in the poorest countries in the world or how people lived in this country 40 years ago or even 100.

And I think the problem with your perspective is you see an isolated part of the country, I felt exactly the same as you (as I said I voted remain, I'm a young Londoner with a well paid job and friends from all over he world). The problem is, when you listen to people's experiences from outside the well-to-bubbles, it is clear that quality of life has significantly declined in many areas of the country - now, I'm not for one minute suggesting this driven by the EU or immigration - I think austerity policies have had more of an impact, not that these are not required often either - but the more that people do as you have done - stick your fingers in your ears and go la la la - the more disenchantment is going to spread. And the big danger of this is that it will push people to support causes / groups that are genuinely prejudiced/racist etc out of sheer frustration.