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  • FIRST POST
    energyfish
    setting up and administering your own SSAS Pension scheme
    • #1
    • 2nd Nov 12, 7:05 PM
    setting up and administering your own SSAS Pension scheme 2nd Nov 12 at 7:05 PM
    Hi All,



    is it possible to set up an SSAS pension scheme fro my company (as I am a sole company director with rather simple tax affairs and currently very small pension pot) without having to do this through, and thus pay (rather high) fees to, an SSAS Pension administration company - anybody for example have a template of a SSAS Trust Deed and Scheme Rules ?



    Number of reasons for wanting to do this is (and Not SSIP):



    - Complete control over scheme.

    - Ability to use fund within peer-to-peer investments (e.g. funding circle) - get signifcantly better returns than with any ISA or other pesnion scheme



    Many thanks

    energyfish
Page 1
    • bilbo51
    • By bilbo51 3rd Nov 12, 10:22 AM
    • 511 Posts
    • 250 Thanks
    bilbo51
    • #2
    • 3rd Nov 12, 10:22 AM
    • #2
    • 3rd Nov 12, 10:22 AM
    Hi All,



    is it possible to set up an SSAS pension scheme fro my company (as I am a sole company director with rather simple tax affairs and currently very small pension pot) without having to do this through, and thus pay (rather high) fees to, an SSAS Pension administration company - anybody for example have a template of a SSAS Trust Deed and Scheme Rules ?



    Number of reasons for wanting to do this is (and Not SSIP):



    - Complete control over scheme.

    - Ability to use fund within peer-to-peer investments (e.g. funding circle) - get signifcantly better returns than with any ISA or other pesnion scheme



    Many thanks

    energyfish
    Originally posted by energyfish
    In order to qualify for the tax relief from the Revenue, an authorised provider must be used.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 3rd Nov 12, 4:42 PM
    • 27,252 Posts
    • 16,309 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #3
    • 3rd Nov 12, 4:42 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd Nov 12, 4:42 PM
    http://www.pensionsadvisoryservice.org.uk/workplace-pension-schemes/small-self-administered-schemes-(ssas)
    http://www.organongroup.co.uk/index.php/pensions/single/small-self-administered-scheme-ssas/
    "Each scheme requires a Scheme Administrator, whose role is:
    Registering the pension scheme with HMRC
    Reporting events relating to the scheme to HMRC
    Making regular returns of information to HMRC
    Providing information to scheme members, and others, regarding the Lifetime Allowance, benefits and transfers"
  • Haretastic
    • #4
    • 2nd May 13, 3:58 PM
    • #4
    • 2nd May 13, 3:58 PM
    All,

    I have the same question - I run a small limited company, have a bigger pension pot (250k) to transfer in and want to set up an SSAS where my wife and I are trustees, members and the limited company is the administrator - although as I understand it, once one is a trustee one is de facto an administrator. There is always the option of outsourcing this function to a qualified pension practitioner.

    I've done a great deal of research and unless I have missed something (always possible), it is indeed a requirement for a pension scheme to be run by a provider authorised by the FSA (now FCA) UNLESS the scheme is an occupational pension scheme, which would be the case if the scheme is an SSAS; I have taken advice to this effect as well - would be interested to know if that advice is wrong.

    Therefore, I too would like to avoid fees and costs and in any event am an experienced investor ... so are there any "template" SSAS trust deeds and scheme rules out there?
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 2nd May 13, 4:55 PM
    • 27,252 Posts
    • 16,309 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #5
    • 2nd May 13, 4:55 PM
    • #5
    • 2nd May 13, 4:55 PM
    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/ihtmanual/ihtm17021.htm
    http://citywire.co.uk/new-model-adviser/hmrc-sparks-tax-fears-for-5000-ssas-laggards/a604806
    http://www.jchim.co.uk/PDFs/A%20Guide%20to%20SSASs.pdf
    might be worth a look.
    • mania112
    • By mania112 2nd May 13, 7:24 PM
    • 1,949 Posts
    • 745 Thanks
    mania112
    • #6
    • 2nd May 13, 7:24 PM
    • #6
    • 2nd May 13, 7:24 PM
    The setting up of a SSAS is very complex and time-consuming.

    I would suggest using an IFA to take the pressure off, one can be found at www.unbiased.co.uk
    • Debt_Free_Chick
    • By Debt_Free_Chick 3rd May 13, 4:30 AM
    • 13,149 Posts
    • 9,492 Thanks
    Debt_Free_Chick
    • #7
    • 3rd May 13, 4:30 AM
    • #7
    • 3rd May 13, 4:30 AM
    Number of reasons for wanting to do this is (and Not SSIP):



    - Complete control over scheme.

    - Ability to use fund within peer-to-peer investments (e.g. funding circle) - get signifcantly better returns than with any ISA or other pesnion scheme
    Originally posted by energyfish
    Are you sure a SIPP won't deliver those benefits?
    Warning ..... I'm a peri-menopausal axe-wielding maniac
    • SippTechie
    • By SippTechie 3rd May 13, 8:35 AM
    • 74 Posts
    • 71 Thanks
    SippTechie
    • #8
    • 3rd May 13, 8:35 AM
    • #8
    • 3rd May 13, 8:35 AM
    Word of warning about peer-to-peer lending.

    With one exception, if a SIPP or SSAS lends money to anyone, and that person or business uses that loan to purchase tangible moveable property, you will be deemed to have an interest in that TMP and will face a significant tax charge. This applies whether the loan is secured or unsecured.

    I'm aware of a case with another provider where a client was allowed to lend money to a business acquaintance of that client who ran a tool-hire firm. The borrower used all of the loan to purchase stock, all of which was tangible moveable property. End result, the pension scheme and client both became liable for significant tax charges.

    Does the peer-to-peer lending scheme give you complete control of what the borrower does with the money once you have lent it to them?

    The one exception to the TMP rule is where a SSAS (doesn't work for a SIPP) lends money to an employer associated to the SSAS and meets a number of other requirements about the loan.

    In terms of setting up a SSAS, yes it is theoretically possible to do this without using a professional. There may be complications with getting benefits transferred to the scheme if there is no professional involved. This is linked to a newish pensions liberation model which looks a lot like a SSAS that doesn't have a professional involved. Not really able to say any more here.
  • jamesd
    • #9
    • 3rd May 13, 11:50 AM
    • #9
    • 3rd May 13, 11:50 AM
    The only controls I've seen on P2P involve compelling the lending to be for mortgage or business purposes like purchase of equipment or stock. The others have no way of compelling or blocking specific uses and a borrower is entirely capable of lying on an application form, though usually it would be by saying it's to buy a car then using it for something else instead.

    The concept of doing P2P within a pension is very attractive. Thanks for your warning. I suppose it would apply to non-domestic P2P like that done at isePankur, which is the case that interests me - as it should with gross returns in the high 20% range and net of bad debt not much below 20% once they had sorted out their underwriting.

    isePankur probably would be interested in working with SIPP vendors to set up a system that did limit lending to only the cases where the borrower did not give tangible property as the reason for the borrowing. But that's reason given, use might be different.

    If there's any chance at all of your employer being interested in doing this sort of thing, it's something that interests me for at least a few tens or thousands of a larger pension pot size. Undoubtedly not only me. P2P with non-trivial default rates has very poor tax treatment and a pension tax wrapper would be very attractive for a non-traditional investment if that didn't come with other catches.
  • moonrakermitch
    Hi Energyfish

    I'm in the same boat now. Did you manage to sort out your SSAS without an IFA? I'm trying to do this but can't find a trust deed and rules template. Was wondering where you might have found such a thing. Please feel free to pm me.

    Cheers
    It's not that I'm tight - I just love the rush of a bargain!
    • wallpaperman
    • By wallpaperman 13th Dec 13, 10:35 PM
    • 79 Posts
    • 81 Thanks
    wallpaperman
    As SIPP techie alluded to in an earlier post, SSAS schemes are the current flavour of the month with the pension liberation movement.

    Strange how new SSAS's have been virtually non existent in the past 5 years or so, but they seem to be popping up all over the place in the last 6 months, I wonder why?

    You may find it extremely hard to convince your pension company to transfer your policy to a SSAs, be it a DIY one or otherwise, unless it is done through one of the long established SSAS administrators.

    I know our company have knocked back many attempted transfers to SSAS's in the past few months,they just don't stand up to scrutiny and the companies cannot provide even basic stuff we ask them for.
    • EdGasket
    • By EdGasket 21st Jan 14, 4:47 PM
    • 3,456 Posts
    • 1,446 Thanks
    EdGasket
    The above poster louisewilliamss is popping up on a few posts today; maybe got nothing better to do.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 21st Jan 14, 5:09 PM
    • 95,754 Posts
    • 63,452 Thanks
    dunstonh
    spamremoveal-x@hotmail.co.uk i work in this industry
    Originally posted by louisewilliamss
    You work in the industry but have a hotmail address?

    You are in breach of FCA guidelines on financial promotions. In breach of board rules for spamming and wouldnt be surprised if you were a scammer.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
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