Joint debt HSBC demand letter post BR

robotwars69 · 28 October 2017 at 5:39PM

Thank you for your reply Debt Doctor...

Still a touch confused, I wonder if you could clear that up for me?

"It seems that you have been taken half way around the world and back to discover that the non bankrupt can simply continue to pay."

This is exactly what the HSBC is telling us we CANNOT do??! I've discovered the opposite.

Points 1 & 2 in post #7 are not been honoured - the bank is unwilling to set up any kind of agreement to continue to pay.

Is this what you mean, because HSBC haven't issued a default notice, but a final demand for the whole £18 with an 18-day period which ends on Nov 3!

debt_doctor · 28 October 2017 at 6:06PM

In my view, what you have 'discovered' is indeed the correct approach. As clearly your wife cannot pay in full, then she needs to continue to pay the contractual payments on time and needs to take the complaint forward.
If what HSBC are saying were true, we would have seen it on this forum many times - and in my job role my 14 debt adviser colleagues and myself would have seen it also - but never have.

I believe that they should have issued a default notice.

You do have to wait 8 weeks for HSBC to reply or if they give you their final response - whichever is sooner before it can go to the FOS.

DD

Debtor80 · 28 October 2017 at 8:15PM

I guess the real question here is what assets does your wife have, what other debts and can she afford to service the debt.

I imagine this has caused you and your partner a huge amount of stress and anxiety, something HSBC should be ashamed of.

I am inclined to agree with you that they do no deserve a wad of cash.

If course as soon as you said foreign call centre it made sense, although in my experience the Filipino ones are worse because they do not even understand the scripts they are reading. Such a false economy to employ such muppets.

I have had some amazing service from call centres in Derby, Cheshire and Scotland, so no excuse to use these foreign call centres, costs any savings made to clear up their mess.

robotwars69 · 28 October 2017 at 8:40PM

Yes, except the office that is causing us all the grief is the one in Birmingham who are blatantly refusing to accept any kind of repayment scheme - so much so that the regular payment that has actually come out since the final demand they said they would refund. There is nothing out of the ordinary here in terms of other debts or affordability, we have done a IE twice now, once in branch when we made her sole responsibility of the once-joint account, and the other day with the Financial guidance team, both resulting in a positive affordability.

Thank you Debt Doctor for your input - I just can't get my head around why this is happening and if there's any last ditch attempt to sort it before the 18 day deadline.

Then the other thing is the 8-week issue, what do I do in the mean time?!

Thanks again!

debt_doctor · 29 October 2017 at 11:54AM

The only logical thing your wife can do is to continue to keep paying in accordance with the agreement. I've heard lots of various creditors over the years for all sorts of reasons "we'll send the money back if you pay" - let them do what they want (they rarely return money!).

I still think this is an enormous intercontinental confusion of words -

Default on a joint loan causes default for both (or all) parties. Correct.

You cannot remedy that breach as you are bankrupt. Correct.

Your wife can continue to pay (and must immediately make up any missed payments - but seems there aren't any) which will remedy the breach (as either party can remedy a breach) and continue the contract. Correct.

If no one remedies the breach then the full amount becomes due for all parties - It is this I think some of HSBC have jumped the gun at in their conversations with you. The notice does indeed call in the full amount of the loan for all parties - but also gives time to do something about it.

Always remember that it is your wife who needs to take all of these actions - you personally cannot do anything to remedy the situation as you are bankrupt.

Good luck and keep us informed.
DD

robotwars69 · 29 October 2017 at 12:56PM

Thanks once again DD, appreciate all of your input -

In terms of remedy of the situation, as there are no arrears, then the remedy is do nothing!

According to the bank though, the remedy is pay £18k by the end of next week - nothing else. And there is nobody there who is prepared to recognise what everyone else in the whole world is saying!

If we do nothing, from what HSBC has told us, then the default happens and the account gets charged off, and the collections company begins their work because of the default. This is what we're banging our heads against the wall at, because there is no-one at HSBC telling us what we all know should happen.

So, whilst doing nothing (no actions for my wife to take, because there are no arrears), is the correct thing - by next Friday, they're going to 'act' on an unresolved final demand of the whole balance!!

From everything I have heard and read, we have a strong case for the complaint etc, but this is surely resolvable if there was anyone with half a brain at HSBC who could see this. I've spoken to the highest manager I believe I could have spoken to and he is adamant that my wife cannot continue to pay, full stop.

"The notice does indeed call in the full amount of the loan for all parties - but also gives time to do something about it." Yes, and we have followed the channels which all led to calling the Financial Guidance Team - and they refuse to do anything about it ... You're wife cannot continue paying, and we can't set up a pay plan. Stale mate again.

Even continuing paying is becoming an obstacle:

Yesterday, my wife got a standard letter asking for new direct debit instructions for the loan because the last payment could not be collected (it has been) because the direct debit had been cancelled.

meer53 · 29 October 2017 at 1:26PM

As you are now bankrupt, you will not be able to hold an account with HSBC. Your wife will and she will be able to make repayments to the loan from her account. A joint account can't be converted into a sole account, they'll probably create a new account for your wife and a new loan to repay the old one, in your wifes name which she will be able to pay from her new sole account which is why they're probably asking for new direct debit instructions. Has your wife called them about the loan ? She's liable for it at the moment so they'll discuss it with her.

robotwars69 · 29 October 2017 at 2:04PM

Thank you meer53

We actually went to branch and converted that joint account into a sole account. Signed for, along with the contractual obligations, an IE was done and they rang it through and got it approved. So right now, as far as we're concerned that is the case, I do not hold any account with HSBC now, my wife still does and it is active.

Has my wife called them about the loan???! For about 1 week and a total of 5 hours, yes!

You are echoing what the insolvency team have said about creating a new loan account - and they have said my wife has to ring Financial Guidance to do an I/E and set it up BEFORE the 18 days. But this team of people we need to speak with are having none of it.

In terms of speaking with her - we're sort of acting as a team here, and when I speak to them, it's on her confirmed authorisation - because the stress on this is through the roof, so I'm trying to keep a cool head. So technically when I'm using the 'we' it's all 'she' if that makes sense just to avoid confusion in this forum! I'm aware of the implications of my bankruptcy etc.

I wish it was a simple as you say - we (she) has had no communication whatsoever about the bankruptcy situation, just a final demand and a whole headache of getting any sense out of anyone.

fatbelly · 29 October 2017 at 2:26PM

robotwars69 wrote: »

this is surely resolvable if there was anyone with half a brain at HSBC who could see this. .

I've nothing to add to the others' comments - except to note that I have been saying for some time that HSBC appear to have taken over the mantle from Lloyds for being the most useless major creditor.

Only an optimist would look for someone with half a brain at HSBC, but I wish you luck and will keep an eye on this thread.

GDB2222 · 29 October 2017 at 3:02PM

What happens if your wife does nothing more? Come 3 Nov, she's in default. They have to issue a default notice and follow the correct procedure. I'm not a debt expert, but I have a feeling that at that point they'll freeze the interest and charges on the loan, which helps your wife. I think they are also required to accept reasonable instalments that will pay the debt off in several years. So, isn't that precisely the result you wanted?

Joint debt HSBC demand letter post BR

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