Statute Barred Debt Lowell (Part II)

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  • sourcrates
    sourcrates Posts: 28,888 Ambassador
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    Statute barring is calculated from the date of the default notice, not the end of the agreement or the date of the last payment .


    Err......this is what you posted.


    The OP`s had the correct advice, lets not complicate matters.
    I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the Debt free wannabe, Credit file and ratings, and Bankruptcy and living with it boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.For free non-judgemental debt advice, contact either Stepchange, National Debtline, or CitizensAdviceBureaux.Link to SOA Calculator- https://www.stoozing.com/soa.php The "provit letter" is here-https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2607247/letter-when-you-know-nothing-about-about-the-debt-aka-prove-it-letter
  • GothicStirling
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    Okay, got back from holiday tonight to find a letter from Northampton. They are allocating the case to a local County Court (not the one I requested). What shall I do now for preparation.
  • fatbelly
    fatbelly Posts: 20,504 Forumite
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    It normally goes to the court nearest to the defendant. If that is the one you asked for and they have allocated it somewhere else, check that the court you asked for is still open (a lot are closing) and takes small claim cases.

    You need do nothing for now. Just wait for instructions.
  • Debt_suvivor
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    Expiry date is default date

    They can legally enforce until 10/4/19
    And the other 14/9/2018. They log it with courts before those dates it’s ccj time
  • fatbelly
    fatbelly Posts: 20,504 Forumite
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    edited 30 October 2018 at 10:37PM
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    Expiry date is default date

    They can legally enforce until 10/4/19
    And the other 14/9/2018. They log it with courts before those dates it’s ccj time
    They can try. OP can defend using established case law. And is doing.

    Reeves v Butcher [1891]
    Swansea City Council v Glass [1992]
    Sevcon Ltd v Lucas CAV Ltd [1986]

    BMW Financial Service (GB) Ltd v Hart [2012] does not apply as the terms present in that agreement do not appear in the terms and conditions of a Provident loan.

    Lowell are disputing that the cause of action is the cessation of payments on 1/11/2011. However, are not citing BMW v Hart but they are introducing a novel argument that the cause of action is the expiry of the loan agreement on 10/4/13.

    Presumably on that argument someone entering a 25-year loan and stopping payment after one month could not be sued for a further 24 years 11 months.
  • Just_Di
    Just_Di Posts: 385 Forumite
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    edited 12 October 2018 at 12:02PM
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    a letter from Northampton. They are allocating the case to a local County Court (not the one I requested). What shall I do now for preparation.


    I've taken a peek at your three threads on this Lowell's debt and can see that you're defending the claim solely on the Statute Barred argument.

    I always think it's best to defend on as many legal arguments as possible in case a DJ isn't persuaded by just the one. If they (DJ) can see multiple breaches of the Consumer Credit Act then they could be more inclined to take an overall negative view of the Claimant's case.

    My suggestion is to send a s 77-79 CCA Request to Lowells together with the £1 statutory fee for this ex-Provident loan. If they can't/don't comply with your request within 14 days the debt will become unenforceable in court (regardless of the Statute Barred issue). I believe this forum may have a link to a CCA Request template letter.

    Can I check whether Cohen Cramer solicitors are still instructed or have Lowell Portfolio (debt owner) instructed Lowell Solicitors? If so have you received a formal Notice of the change? I read on another thread that Cohen Cramer were involved, but correct me if I've misunderstood the situation :).

    If Lowells are arguing the default date as the Cause of Action (in my experience they always do) then they should produce a valid Default Notice as part of their evidence. So my next suggestion is to send them a CPR 31.14 Request seeking disclosure of the Default Notice. If they can't produce a compliant (s 87 CCA) DN then they may struggle in court. They often produce a screenshot showing one was issued/served but that's not enough (up to the DJ to decide on that point).

    I've not seen the Particulars of Claim but CPR 31.14 allows the Defendant to ask for documentation mentioned (not simply referred to) in the POC. If the DN was mentioned then they must produce it.

    I would also use the CPR 31.14 Request to ask them to produce the Notice of Assignment, Deed of Assignment, and the credit agreement (even though you'll be requesting this under s 77-79 CCA).

    If they can't/don't produce the Notice of Assignment how can the court be persuaded that the debt was assigned and that Lowells have the legal right to claim the debt.

    Have you been served with annual Notice of Sums in Arrears (s 86 CCA) since the account defaulted? If not then the debt becomes unenforceable until they remedy the problem. Don't raise this point now (save it for the Witness Statement stage).

    If you've only pleaded Statute Barred in your Defence the court may not allow you to add new legal arguments especially if the Claimant objects. You may need to amend your Defence which requires permission from the court (an Application) unless the other side consent to you amending it.

    I can't see how much is being claimed? My apologies if I've missed that fact.

    Di
  • sourcrates
    sourcrates Posts: 28,888 Ambassador
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    edited 12 October 2018 at 12:17PM
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    Just_Di wrote: »

    My suggestion is to send a s 77-79 CCA Request to Lowells together with the £1 statutory fee for this ex-Provident loan. If they can't/don't comply with your request within 14 days the debt will become unenforceable in court (regardless of the Statute Barred issue). I believe this forum may have a link to a CCA Request template letter.

    Di


    CCA request letter can be found here :


    https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/sampleletters/Pages/Information-about-your-agreement-under-the-Consumer-Credit-Act-%28sole-name%29.aspx
    I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the Debt free wannabe, Credit file and ratings, and Bankruptcy and living with it boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.For free non-judgemental debt advice, contact either Stepchange, National Debtline, or CitizensAdviceBureaux.Link to SOA Calculator- https://www.stoozing.com/soa.php The "provit letter" is here-https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2607247/letter-when-you-know-nothing-about-about-the-debt-aka-prove-it-letter
  • GothicStirling
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    Okay, have now received a Court date of 27th Nov, and need to send a Witness Statement. My plan is to say:


    1. It is my belief that the debt is SB as I have not made a payment or had contact with Lowell or Provident since Nov 2011.


    2. I dispute Lowell's argument for Cause for Action, as the Provident contract clearly states that the first default would have been 1 week following the last payment.


    Anything else?
  • GothicStirling
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    I've just seen Just Di's post (been away), so I suppose its too late to request anymore information?
  • GSDlover
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    You seem to have totally ignored Sourcrates and Di’s excellent advice? I’m just wondering why ....

    Edited to add - you posted almost at the same time as me, seems you’ve been away. Shame you didn’t read those posts on holiday so you could act on the advice given.
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