ReAssure Taking Over Legal & General Insurance Based Savings - Stick with it or cash out early?

Options
Hi all

Just had a letter from Legal & General stating they are transferring it’s existing insurance based policies to ReAssure. I’ve never heard of ReAssure to be honest.

I have an endowment policy that is underperforming, as most seem to be, and it’s due to mature in approx 3 and 1/2 years time. Any opinions as to how good ReAssure are performance wise, compared to L&G, so I can try and work out whether it’d be better to cash out the policy early or let it run?

It’s a Nationwide Unit Linked Endowment if that helps or is relevant.
«1

Comments

  • SonOf
    SonOf Posts: 2,631 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post
    Options
    I’ve never heard of ReAssure to be honest.

    Have you heard of most of the best retail financial services companies? The average consumer hasn't.
    I have an endowment policy that is underperforming, as most seem to be,

    Most are not underperforming. That was never the issue with endowments.
    Any opinions as to how good ReAssure are performance wise, compared to L&G,
    It will be no different for many years.
  • KC_Cantiaci
    Options
    SonOf wrote: »
    Most are not underperforming. That was never the issue with endowments.

    What is the issue? I had 2 endowments..... this one and one with the Pru that paid out a few years ago. The first paid out £25k on what was supposed to be £35k cover and this one is currently sitting at £14k and expected to pay £16k on £25k cover. So they’re paying something like 29% and 36% less than what they were designed for let alone the anticipated extra cash projections over and above what they were supposed to cover made by the financial adviser that sold them.
    SonOf wrote: »
    It will be no different for many years.

    So looks unlikely to improve then? Is there anything out there that is performing better? Wondering whether to cash out early and put the money into something else?
  • Linton
    Linton Posts: 17,173 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary Hung up my suit!
    Options
    The problem with endowments generally was not that the investment returns were particularly bad compared with what could be achieved elsewhere but rather that the assumptions made when the endowment was set up proved to be unrealistically optimistic. The world changed.

    The transfer of the endowment should not of itself be a reason to cash in the policy. If it is worth doing now it would have been worth doing whilst under L&G and vice versa.
  • SonOf
    SonOf Posts: 2,631 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post
    Options
    What is the issue? I had 2 endowments..... this one and one with the Pru that paid out a few years ago. The first paid out £25k on what was supposed to be £35k cover and this one is currently sitting at £14k and expected to pay £16k on £25k cover. So they’re paying something like 29% and 36% less than what they were designed for let alone the anticipated extra cash projections over and above what they were supposed to cover made by the financial adviser that sold them.

    When the plans were set up, the sales agent or adviser could set the target growth rate. If the target growth rate was lower, the premiums would be higher and vice versa.

    You have some endowments set up with target growth rates really low at 4% and others at 13%. If the investment fund averaged 6% a year, then the one set up needing 4% a year would pay a surplus on maturity. The one set up needing 13% a year would have a shortfall. If they both invested in the same fund, then they would both get identical returns.
  • KC_Cantiaci
    Options
    Sorry.... been away. So what you’re both saying is that the initial targets were overly optimistic hence the shortfall but the endowments themselves have been performing as well as other investment instruments? So I should just keep it running? There’s no benefit from cashing the policy in and moving it to a different company/scheme?
  • SonOf
    SonOf Posts: 2,631 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post
    Options
    So what you’re both saying is that the initial targets were overly optimistic hence the shortfall but the endowments themselves have been performing as well as other investment instruments?

    Yes.

    There are a few caveats. Charges on modern plans (particularly those bought after 2013) tend to be cheaper. Some by a lot. Although some old plans can be gems that are very good value. Modern plans tend to have better online access to valuations. Old ones have little or nothing. And the choice of investments with modern options is often whole of market (anything quoted on the London Stock Exchange plus most UT/OEIC funds) whereas old plans tend to be a dozen or so if you are lucky. Often just one fund.

    If the costs of exit are minimal and the existing plan can be improved upon, then it may be worth looking to change. However, the key thing we are saying is that it is not the endowment itself that is at fault. It is the level of contribution that is likely too low because the target growth rate was set too high.
  • KC_Cantiaci
    Options
    OK.... thanks for that. I’ll have a think.
  • bozo1
    Options
    I'm in more or less the same position as the OP.
    I also just read the update on this story which is that the transfer has been postponed to April 2020, pending high court hearing in March, because the owners of ReAssure (Swiss Re) have decided to sell ReAssure to Phoenix.
    Like the OP and most of us mere mortals I never heard of any of these three companies!
    In spite of that I don't like the smell of this deal, though of course I don't know enough to judge it (and would rather not have to if I'm honest!).
    I have read though that one of the reasons that Swiss Re are getting rid of ReAssure is that it will improve their results in the Swiss stress test of financial institutions, which does not exactly increase confidence! The whole chain sounds a bit like sorting out the rotten apples and putting them in one basket... reminiscent of subprime... but if someone who knows more can pour cold water on this I'm happy to stand corrected!
  • SonOf
    SonOf Posts: 2,631 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post
    Options
    Like the OP and most of us mere mortals I never heard of any of these three companies!

    Three?
    L&G - well known brand in the UK but no longer that interested in the individual life and pensions market and like many insurers before it, it is looking to offload its legacy book.
    Reassure - large company but not a common name as it didnt have much in the way of retail products that consumers would buy. Typically you ended up with Reassure through your company being bought rather than buy a reassure product. They have bought many big names insurance books (Barclays, HSBC amongst others).
    Phoenix - possibly the biggest and most well known of the companies that buys old insurance company books. They started out by buying Pearl Assurance and have never looked back buying very many legacy name books. Sometimes Phoenix effectively take over the office and computers of the firm it is buying and continues to run them as they were. Sometimes it will look to move the plans on to other software where it is possible to do so. A lot of the time, the old Pearl Assurance layout is used on letters which makes you think that their software is being used with some of the other providers that have been bought.
    In spite of that I don't like the smell of this deal, though of course I don't know enough to judge it (and would rather not have to if I'm honest!).

    I think it is good news. Phoenix do a very good job. As they tend to buy the unwanted parts of insurers, many of which have been starved of funding for years or even decades, they often improve the quality after a period (not overnight as they have to assess what they have and how it works).

    Would you rather be with a company that doesnt want you or one that does?
    I have read though that one of the reasons that Swiss Re are getting rid of ReAssure is that it will improve their results in the Swiss stress test of financial institutions, which does not exactly increase confidence!

    None of that has anything to do with Phoenix which will be the ultimate owner. Phoenix and Swiss Re operate mostly in different areas.
    The whole chain sounds a bit like sorting out the rotten apples and putting them in one basket.
    Not rotten but unwanted.

    Legacy books are often on old computers and software that needs updating. The profit to be made on UK legacy books is not large and many of the big companies believe that they can make bigger profits from the capital from the sale rather than remaining in the market. This is why not just the old small insurers have sold up but the big ones have been doing it as well. If you look at the list of company books Phoenix has bought, it will read almost like a directory of yesteryear insurers.
    reminiscent of subprime..

    No. Nothing like subprime.

    A lot of the legacy plans are obsolete by modern plan standards and should be reviewed. Although not everything old is bad. There are some gems worth keeping. This is little you can do with endowments but pensions and investments may well be improved with modern options and worth investigating.
  • bozo1
    bozo1 Posts: 2 Newbie
    edited 25 January 2020 at 10:45PM
    Options
    Three?
    Swiss Re, Reassure, and Phoenix - all new to me!
    Thanks for your views... hope you're right about Phoenix!
    If you look at the list of company books Phoenix has bought, it will read almost like a directory of yesteryear insurers.
    Who could possibly have anticipated that pension scheme business would be on the books for decades:rotfl:
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 343.2K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 608.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173.1K Life & Family
  • 248K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards