Employment Tribunal

ScaredButHopeful · 4 June 2018 at 5:27PM

Hi
*Essay Alert!*
I was working as a carer and got promoted so I was then working for the same company, different branch, in an office.

From day one a member of staff made it clear she wasn’t keen on me. My manager had already spoken to her about it without me knowing and then done so again.
After this things happened regarding sabotage to me and another staff member. My manager thought it was her too but couldn’t prove anything.
All office staff were called in for a meeting regarding the friction and things got a bit better.
In the end though, I resigned as it was all too scary and I hated the atmosphere.

My manager asked me several times to stay, as did other staff, so after turning down an alternate job, I decided to stay as I loved the job role and progression.
Just a couple of days later however I was called in my managers office and told I was on probation for attitudes in the workplace.
It wasn’t confirmed but was insinuated that the other person was also on it.
I never signed anything. I was asked to make amends so I sent the one and only personal email I ever sent to her and she denied there was any issues.

I was furious but I got nowhere arguing it so I kept my head down. Then there was an incident that caused me to whistleblow. Im no grass but it was concerning children and as I had been abused, I persued it.
I was told that my manager heard nothing and neither did I! I then went to her office to inform her of other stuff relevant to this and she was stern and showed me the door!

After that, I had a few days holiday and when I came back it was hell!
I wasnt included in discussions, talked over and people would go quiet when I entered the room. Then a few days after I was called to my managers office and told that I was being stood down from my role as there was serious concerns.
Carers were complaining about me as were staff apparently.
I was offered a job swap which isn’t the route I would ever willingly take and plus I have a back problem that causes sciatica and controlled meds. (My medical notes confirm this) My employers say yes they were aware of it but its not a disability.

I would also be relocated to upstairs and this was always apparently the plan with this role. The person already doing it has always sat opposite me.
I would be on a further 3 month probation and everyone already knew.
I cried (a lot and I never cry) and asked to leave.
They wanted the decision there and then but I refused and was given the weekend to decide.

I went to my other job that evening (same company) and stressed and upset, it was my own fault, I pulled my back.

I kept Work updated through med appointments and self certified.
2 days later I received a letter saying we take it you are unwilling to accept the role but I was off sick!
I put in a grievance. I have never returned to work, Im on long term sick.
I put in a second grievance when I was instructed to see the same manager saying that I didnt want a meeting with her as she was included in my allegations.

No ACAS or company policies were adhered to as timings dragged out.
The grievance meeting was pointless and they upheld their complaints.

I have text messages to prove (between me and other workers) that the reasons they gave aren’t true.
They said I risked vulnerable people and the clients complained yet they offered me a job working directly with these clients and I still dont know what the complaints are supposed to be.

The new role involved driving a lot and I cant always guarantee due to the back so I knew they was trying to get me out.
Why not fire me if the concerns were so great? Because they insist they were trying to support me.

I had no verbal or written warnings and they have provided no documentation to say I did. Just their word.

I was denied an appeal and when I asked what I was employed as I was told It will be discussed when you return.

They have drove me to the point I am seeing a psychiatrist as Im so mentally distressed as the lies and all the allegations are disgusting. Plus as you can probably appreciate, everyone now knows of my failings and yet no-one has told them? I certainly didn’t.

My colleagues have decided to be witnesses for the employers and have sent in statements against me saying Im a bully, confrontational etc. I have texts to prove that they are not being truthful as they were saying the same about the other person.
Their solicitor tried to get these removed from the Bundle but failed.

I also have text evidence of other failures/cover ups that I could have pushed further but I took their word they were addressing them so I left it.

The day after the whistleblowing incident the company applied for the correct paperwork needed and I have that as proof.

My only parent, my dad, passed away last month and that’s added to my mental state.
None of their evidence is signed by the so called people who complained about me and its all typed.
No screenshots which I asked for were provided, just again typed on paper.

They offered to settle at the start and I declined. Im not too proud to say it is about money as well as respect. Ive lost the person who I was through all this.

But do I fight or do I just try and settle? To me it sounds like they had no reason to fire me so offered me a job they knew I couldnt do to get me out that way.
They thought I would quit or walk but I thought I was stronger and could fight it.

There are notes meetings but them meetings didnt occur, they are fabricated.

They also have my diary that proves everything but first they didn’t have it, then they offered me a wrong one and now apparently I took it.

I have to represent myself as Ive been off 6 months and cant afford a solicitor and the home insurance one wasnt great so I decided not to go with them. I just didnt know I was going to mentally break or lose my dad at the time.

Anyone got any advice?

And thank you in advance

Smodlet · 4 June 2018 at 5:39PM

Please, OP, edit your post into paragraphs. I saw this huge block of text and just turned off. You might get some replies if you made your essay easier to read. Your choice.

ssparks2003 · 4 June 2018 at 6:17PM

You have declined their offer of settlement, realistically the settlement is now off the table unless they choose to re-offer it.

steampowered · 4 June 2018 at 8:54PM

OK, so breaking that down it seems the key points are as follows:

1) You had an issue with another member of staff, which led to your resignation.
2) You were convinced to stay.
3) You blew the whistle on a particular issue and were told by your manager to keep quiet.
4) You were put on probation, and asked whether you wanted to leave.
5) You've been off sick for 6 months.
6) You were dismissed.

But then you jump straight to the 'bundle'? It sounds like you are already quite advanced through the Employment Tribunal process?

I would have described the merits/issues with the possible claims you have for unfair dismissal and breach of the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998, but it sounds like your claim has already gone in so it may be too late to change it now?

If you are already mentally struggling, I do wonder whether taking this to trial is a good idea. You would need to do hours of research, carefully prepare evidence and cross examine the employers' witnesses. Might not be the best thing.

There is something to be said from a mental health perspective to just letting bygones be bygones. Ideally in the form of a settlement agreement which contains an 'agreed reference' the employer agrees to give to any future prospective employer.

If you would like to settle, I would suggest you send a letter to the employer offering to settle the case on the basis of the amount they offered if set out in a settlement agreement containing an agreed reference. If the employer rejects the offer this does not damage your ability to proceed with the case.

ScaredButHopeful · 4 June 2018 at 9:12PM

Hi
No I am still employed by them. I just dont know what as, as they evaded answering.
Im due in court next month so yes its gone quite far.
I was mentally struggling but dad was helping me and he passed away after a very short unexpected death so now Im all over the place.
They approached me in the preliminary hearing but at that point I was really angry due to the lies etc and I didnt want to settle, I wanted to stand up to it.
They then asked me to settle again but wouldnt give an amount. Said I had to name a sum but it wouldnt be anywhere near my current losses.
I was contemplating it when dad got taken ill and I didnt even think about their remedy. I was with my parent 24/7.
Then, I guess they took no response as a no and wrote asking for my evidence to be removed.
Thats where I am now.
Ive named disability and whistleblowing on my claim but did mention the other bits (bullying) in the E1 form.
Thank you for your polite reply and sorry that I went on too much.

ScaredButHopeful · 4 June 2018 at 9:16PM

Sorry for the misuse of paragraphs, Im new to all this. I hope it makes better sense now.

steampowered · 5 June 2018 at 9:47AM

Ive named disability and whistleblowing on my claim but did mention the other bits (bullying) in the E1 form.

It sounds to me like the whistleblowing claim is likely to be much stronger than the disability discrimination claim.

As you are still employed and therefore presumably still being paid, the compensation you could expect to be awarded if you won the case might not be very much. But, you have negotiating leverage because the employer will want you to leave the job as part of any settlement.

They approached me in the preliminary hearing but at that point I was really angry due to the lies etc and I didnt want to settle, I wanted to stand up to it.
They then asked me to settle again but wouldnt give an amount. Said I had to name a sum but it wouldnt be anywhere near my current losses.
I was contemplating it when dad got taken ill and I didnt even think about their remedy. I was with my parent 24/7.
Then, I guess they took no response as a no and wrote asking for my evidence to be removed.
Thats where I am now.

It sounds like you never responded to their request to name a figure?

If so, the door is still open. The way to do this would be to write a formal letter or email to the employer's legal representative headed 'without prejudice' which sets out the terms on which you would be open to settling. This should include an amount and that you would need an agreed reference.

Smodlet · 5 June 2018 at 9:48AM

Thank you, OP. That is much better. I am sorry for your loss.

Unfortunately, unless you have photographic/audio proof of the abuse you say was committed, it is just your word against your employer's and those of other members of staff who, apparently, want to keep their jobs so are corroborating your employer's version of events. I think, unless you can find a lawyer (is it worth trying your insurance company again?) it might be time to cut your losses and try to salvage something from this situation.

If you come out of this with a reasonable or neutral reference it might be better than the alternative. Good luck anyway and I wish you a speedy recovery.

FBaby · 5 June 2018 at 5:54PM

OP, I don't say this to be unkind but if you go to court, you will have to be much more coherent than you are in your post here. You express a lot more emotions than facts, and facts are the only thing the court will be interested in.

You also need, however hard it is, to be as objective as you can be in your argument. One example is when you say that the colleagues lied about your bully allegations because they said the same things about the other person. This statement is pointless because it is perfectly possible for them to believe that you were bully as well as the other member of staff. One doesn't counteract the other.

This is the kind of statement that the legal team of the organisation will find so easy to use to discredit your credibility. A lot of what you've written here seems to be more the outcome of your perspective on the situation than objective facts.

Remember that the judge will only be interested in facts, facts, facts. You don't need to come to any conclusions with the information you have, that's what the court will do, you just need to present them.

What you should focus on is any failure on their part to follow their own policies, so focus on whether they followed the right process when deciding to demote you. Was it a formal meeting, a capability review, notes taken and shared etc...

ScaredButHopeful · 5 June 2018 at 6:33PM

Thank you all for your helpful responses.
I would prefer it was given in hard facts so I can reach a better decision. I need to see if I think I can compose myself enough to stand a chance in there.
I have texts from the same witnesses so at the least they should be discredited as their statements dont support their several months of messages over the issue.
I now see that I could be made out to be a bully as much as they were so I thank you for that angle.

1) I never received ANY warnings and their solicitor has confirmed this.
2) None of the alleged carer statements are signed. I certainly wasnt made aware of them until the bundle.
3) They say I left after 10 minutes but my texts from staff members support this is untrue and that there was 2 meetings and both for at least 15 minutes
4) I have texts from one witness saying to hold in there as you are brill at your job and they are trying to intimidate you. Sent before I handed in my notice that was then revoked.
5) My manager has confirmed in the grievance that she told me to think about it (not leaving)
6) The date they applied for the correct paperwork was the day after the whistleblowing
7) I only name the bullying and sabotage as this was going on for 9 months on and off so its rather coincidental that they chose to demote me for that just 2 months after they asked me to stay. I also had 3 weeks holiday in that time.
8) If the clients and carers were complaining then why offer me an alternate job working directly with the clients? And I would still be expected to oversee carers to cover holiday and on call
9) The new role became available in my home town which is a smaller distance to cover when I couldnt drive. Why was I not offered this yet it was given to one of the people named who put a complaint in about me? (She had applied for at least 2 other office roles prior to this and never even got shortlisted)
10) The wording is serious concerns so how did they occur in just 4-5 weeks after they asked me to stay? Why not just fire me?
11) Why are they changing what happened to my diary? Its never been provided
12) The company DID put a trace on the system apparently but they claim they found no sabotage. Theres no proof they did or didnt and I can prove via texts that this was after a different member of staff had issues, not me. Mine were way before that time.
13) Will discrediting with factual emails that the managers have previously covered up incidents and lied and not followed protocol be enough? I have one email where the manager said sorry that I had to take the blame.
Also discrediting one witness as she has wrote that no one else supports her when Im off, theres no team work.
14) Do I stand a chance of proving disability due to the facts I have several back to work forms (after operations for various things) to support the controlled medications I sometimes take? And that I always wrote on them that I am aware of how much I can do and removed myself from clients who were too complex. I have said they always supported me in care, just not in the office. And that doctors and hospital notes clarify my back has been an ongoing issue for ten years
15) They state I was on a six month probation but my contract stated 9 months and their own copy states 2 years. Both are dated and signed on the same date but have a different amount of time. Why give me a contract after 4 months (I was with the company over 3 years over both roles) if they claim its six months? (It was a trial period of 16 weeks and then the probation)
16) There are no notes to say I was ever pulled in and questioned over anything except a meeting that all office staff attended. No one was singled out and it was a group meeting. All they have said in the bundle is that I was told several times.
17) I can prove with texts that I did warn a colleague that I hadnt completed Work one week as it was hectic. She replied. Yet they say it was stumbled upon after the event and I was pulled in the office. As it didn!!!8217;t happen, I left a list with my manager and text the colleague this, i wasnt pulled in. If it didnt occur, why say I gave an excuse?

These are my main strong points In my own mind. Do I have any hope of the judge believing me from these?

Thank you all again and (please) dont take it that I want you to slaughter me, just show me how many (if not all) of these points are worthless.
I appreciate everyones honesty and it really does help me.

FBaby · 5 June 2018 at 7:05PM

My comments below:

ScaredButHopeful wrote: »

1) I never received ANY warnings and their solicitor has confirmed this.
You need to be clear how you describe what you are fighting here. In your opening post, you say you were OFFERED another job. So clearly you would expect a warning for this. Were you told what would happen if you didn't take the job? Did you accept the job, turned it down, or did you never got back to them to let them know your decision?

2) None of the alleged carer statements are signed. I certainly wasnt made aware of them until the bundle.
That's their issue and up to the judge to decide what he wants to do with it.

3) They say I left after 10 minutes but my texts from staff members support this is untrue and that there was 2 meetings and both for at least 15 minutes
Left 10 minutes after what? Does it matter if it was really 15 instead of 10? What point are you trying to make here?

4) I have texts from one witness saying to hold in there as you are brill at your job and they are trying to intimidate you. Sent before I handed in my notice that was then revoked.
Someone expressing their personal view. Not relevant, especially as it was before you gave your notice. If that was the case, why didn't you accept the other job at the time? I don't think this is helping your case.

5) My manager has confirmed in the grievance that she told me to think about it (not leaving)
Again, that shows consideration and good practice on behalf of your manager. What episode does this refer to? When you gave your notice? If so, irrelevant as from what you said, the issue that led to them offering you another role took place after you'd confirmed you were staying after all.

6) The date they applied for the correct paperwork was the day after the whistleblowing
What correct paperwork? You mention this before, but it means nothing to anyone. If what you are saying is that you raised concerns over the use of the right documentation and the day after, they changed their practice, it doesn't mean that the reason why they offered you the other job is because you've decided to report an issue, just that they acknowledged a failure on their part and agreed they needed to remedy to it.

7) I only name the bullying and sabotage as this was going on for 9 months on and off so its rather coincidental that they chose to demote me for that just 2 months after they asked me to stay. I also had 3 weeks holiday in that time.
Coincidences happen all the time, they are part of life. They don't prove causation. It also doesn't come as a coincidence high against the odds.

8) If the clients and carers were complaining then why offer me an alternate job working directly with the clients? And I would still be expected to oversee carers to cover holiday and on call
You say you don't know what the complaint was about? Maybe they were only concerned with your behaviour with colleagues, not with clients and carers? Or maybe they felt you would have better supervision in that other role? They can easily come up with plausible reasons.

9) The new role became available in my home town which is a smaller distance to cover when I couldn!!!8217;t drive. Why was I not offered this yet it was given to one of the people named who put a complaint in about me? (She had applied for at least 2 other office roles prior to this and never even got shortlisted)
Maybe because they felt she was better suited for that role. How do you plan to disprove this? The fact that it was closer to your home is totally irrelevant, they don't offer jobs to people on the basis of how close the jobs are to their homes.

10) The wording is serious concerns so how did they occur in just 4-5 weeks after they asked me to stay? Why not just fire me?
Maybe they wanted to give you another chance? Thought that you would be ok in that other role.

11) Why are they changing what happened to my diary? Its never been provided
What diary? What are you accusing them of exactly? That they falsified a document? Never been provided to whom? Did they require to provide it by law or their internal policies? You need to be clearer here of what you are accusing them of.

12) The company DID put a trace on the system apparently but they claim they found no sabotage. Theres no proof they did or didnt and I can prove via texts that this was after a different member of staff had issues, not me. Mine were way before that time.
What does 'put a trace on the system' mean? This makes no sense to lay by person. What failure are you trying to put forward and what consequence/damage did that failure lead to?

13) Will discrediting with factual emails that the managers have previously covered up and lied and not followed protocol be enough?
Also discrediting the witness?
Your opinion. What evidence to you have that they are discrediting emails and witness?

14) Do I stand a chance of proving disability due to the facts I have several back to Work forms (after operations for various things) to support the controlled medications I sometimes take? And that doctors and hospital notes clarify my back has been an ongoing issue for ten years
Depends on a number of factors. Did you have that condition before you started that job? Did you ever report suffering from a disability? If not, how are they supposed to know that it is? They are not responsible for assessing whether you suffer from one, they are responsible for insuring they follow procedures once you tell them of a disability.

These are my main strong points In my own mind. Do I have any hope of the judge believing me from these?
I'm very sorry, and to make it clear, I am in no way a legal expert, but even so, I don't think any of these points are strong, but actually very weak. You are raising questions rather than evidencing any failings on their part.

Thank you all again and (please) dont take it that I want you to slaughter me, just show me how many (if not all) of these points are worthless.
I appreciate everyones honesty and it really does help me.

Sorry for coming across as so negative, but if it goes to court, be prepared for much more challenging feedback and questions. They will try hard to discredit you, and all the above points are very easy to use to do so.

Maybe what you could do is gather all the information that you have, and summarise what they are. Then consider how each can be used to evidence that they have failed in their legal duties or policies, or refute what the evidence they are likely to bring forward.

Employment Tribunal

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free