Green, ethical, energy issues in the news

JKenH · 21 October 2019 at 9:48AM

pile-o-stone wrote: »

Yep, I'm the same. I used to be subscribed to this thread and the solar news one and would pop in on my journey across a few green sites like Navitron, Tree Hugger and Green Building forum.

I've seen this sort of thing before on other forums over the years. You get a nice vibe and then someone comes in who feels excluded (mainly because they're not interested in the subject matter - like car fans on a motorcycle forum) and so they set out to ruin it for everyone.

What makes it worse is that people who should know better, who used to enjoy the forum, lose their good sense and facilitate the deterioration of the forum by helping threads to be taken off topic and descend into constant arguments.

Well done GA and Ken, you've worked your magic and you're well on your way to taking down this forum. I'm glad I won't be here to see it as I'm taking this board off my list.

No, this thread wandered off topic long before I joined last year.

I just looked back to January 2018 - you and Mart having a disagreement and not much news or GA in sight.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5258031&page=53#topofpage

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

JKenH · 21 October 2019 at 9:54AM

pile-o-stone wrote: »

What makes it worse is that people who should know better, who used to enjoy the forum, lose their good sense and facilitate the deterioration of the forum by helping threads to be taken off topic and descend into constant arguments.

Now, I wonder who that was aimed at.

Martyn1981 · 21 October 2019 at 12:31PM

If one upsets the old deniers so much, imagine what 2,000 will do! :T

2,000 would-be Greta Thunbergs: London summit unites world's environment prodigies

Hundreds of precocious teens and 20somethings from 190 nations descend on UK capital for One Young World

The world’s largest global forum for young leaders will open on Tuesday, as more than 2,000 young people from across the world converge on London.

One Young World’s 10th annual summit will welcome young delegates from more than 190 countries as well as political and humanitarian leaders, including the former UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon, the former president of Ireland Mary Robinson, Sir Richard Branson, Sir John Major and the Canadian prime minister, Justin Trudeau.

“Our young delegates are founders, activists and entrepreneurs in their own right, united by a common goal to resolve some of the world’s most pressing challenges – from climate change and violent extremism to sexual violence and poverty,” said Kate Robertson, a cofounder of the UK-based not-for-profit organisation.

So glad I only thought this, and didn't post it.

The more I watch the news regarding events on both sides of the 'Pond', the more convinced I am that people like me (old men*) should step aside for a trial period and see how the young, women and diversities get on running things, I'm pretty certain, deep down, that they'd do a much better job, certainly couldn't do a worse one.

*Obviously this is very tongue in cheek, and I'm not saying all old men are a problem, but it does seem that most problems stem from old men .... hanging on by their finger tips.

JKenH · 21 October 2019 at 12:39PM

pile-o-stone wrote: »

Yep, I'm the same. I used to be subscribed to this thread and the solar news one and would pop in on my journey across a few green sites like Navitron, Tree Hugger and Green Building forum.

I've seen this sort of thing before on other forums over the years. You get a nice vibe and then someone comes in who feels excluded (mainly because they're not interested in the subject matter - like car fans on a motorcycle forum) and so they set out to ruin it for everyone.

What makes it worse is that people who should know better, who used to enjoy the forum, lose their good sense and facilitate the deterioration of the forum by helping threads to be taken off topic and descend into constant arguments.

Well done GA and Ken, you've worked your magic and you're well on your way to taking down this forum. I'm glad I won't be here to see it as I'm taking this board off my list.

Just one more thought - an analogy.

I am a keen motor racing fan and any one else who is will have observed that in most collisions on track there will be two diametrically opposed opinions of whose fault it is. That won’t just be the drivers, it will also be the fans who have absolutely no doubt that it was 100% the other guys fault.

Now in a few isolated cases where one driver makes a mistake, like piling into the back of the car in front, blame can easily be apportioned. However, in some (one might say many) cases, both drivers have the opportunity to avoid the collision but choose not to do so, believing it is their corner (their right to take a certain line).

Situations can develop where the other drivers can see something is kicking off between two drivers and will either hang back or get caught up in the action and that is when a bit of friendly rivalry can turn into a huge pile up that spoils everybody's fun.

All this can be avoided of course if all the participants act like perfect gentlemen and give each other a bit of space but racers are racers and it will never happen. ‘Rubbing is racing’ they say.

Martyn1981 · 21 October 2019 at 12:39PM

joefizz wrote: »

This might have legs, but it still uses a possibly non-renewable source and will need fossil fuels to produce/recycle.

There's quite a lot of aluminium though, and it can be smelted using RE as the process is electric, lots and lots of leccy.

Steadily as more leccy gen becomes low carbon, many processes and products will themselves become low(er) carbon as the shift to leccy.

But to increase the penetration of RE you need storage, so more batts are needed, and ....... hang on ..... I think the dots are starting to join up.

But as to whether or not it has legs, dunno, but fun to find out.

Here's another article on the same news:

UK Man Invents Aluminum-Air Battery In His Garage

JKenH · 21 October 2019 at 12:57PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

If one upsets the old deniers so much, imagine what 2,000 will do! :T

2,000 would-be Greta Thunbergs: London summit unites world's environment prodigies

So glad I only thought this, and didn't post it. The more I watch the news regarding events on both sides of the 'Pond', the more convinced I am that people like me (old men*) should step aside for a trial period and see how the young, women and diversities get on running things, I'm pretty certain, deep down, that they'd do a much better job, certainly couldn't do a worse one.

*Obviously this is very tongue in cheek, and I'm not saying all old men are a problem, but it does seem that most problems stem from old men .... hanging on by their finger tips.

Quote from an article in the Independent which more or less reflects my views.

https://www.independent.co.uk/hei-fi/views/respect-the-energy-of-youth-but-embrace-the-wisdom-of-age-2283940.html

“I think I'd be worried if my response to life's setbacks – and you can't reach mid-life without a few setbacks – was always "It's not fair!"
What I want is to live in a society which appreciates the energy of youth, but which also respects the wisdom that comes with experience and age”

joefizz · 21 October 2019 at 1:49PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

There's quite a lot of aluminium though, and it can be smelted using RE as the process is electric, lots and lots of leccy.

Yeah I think it was my description of the Hall cell that got me through my O level chemistry exam!

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Steadily as more leccy gen becomes low carbon, many processes and products will themselves become low(er) carbon as the shift to leccy.

Id hope it might be the reverse Martyn, that processes may adapt to use materials (such as recycled aluminium that doesnt require as much as energy as from bauxite) that require less energy. I sort of mentioned this in the long BEV thread about designing at the start for end to end use.
At the minute BEVs need a steel chasis because of the big batteries, so if you could use smaller or changeable batteries you could use different materials which need less energy and themselves can be recycled. Even more so if you can recycle the energy supply.
It will still have an environmental cost but much much reduced. Al has always been the 'dirty' material compared to say, steel but that is changing.

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I think the dots are starting to join up.

All we need is to get elected ;-)

Martyn1981 · 22 October 2019 at 8:59AM

joefizz wrote: »

Id hope it might be the reverse Martyn, that processes may adapt to use materials (such as recycled aluminium that doesnt require as much as energy as from bauxite) that require less energy.

All we need is to get elected ;-)

Yes, but, regardless of whether the materials are new or recycled, the production process(es) still consume energy, so going forward the CO2e of almost everything will reduce as the mulitple energy inputs all the way down the line (even the mining trucks, or recycling trucks) become less FF orientated.

If only for Ken's mental health, I don't think it would be wise to make me King for a day. :whistle:

Martyn1981 · 22 October 2019 at 9:05AM

Good news bad news, perhaps bad news first. As covered lots before, the US is still releasing vast amounts of methane gas.

Oil Majors Dump Millions Of Cubic Feet Of Methane Directly Into The Atmosphere

At a time when public awareness of the dangers of a warming planet is at its highest level ever, when millions of protesters around the world are subjecting themselves to arrest to protest the timid approach to climate change by governments, and when scientific evidence confirming the cause of the oncoming climate emergency increases daily, a report by the New York Times and Greenpeace finds oil companies are releasing more natural gas into the atmosphere than ever — enough to meet the needs of Arizona or South Carolina.

Why, you may ask? Isn’t natural gas a valuable commodity with a significant market value? The answer is yes, but the cockamamie patchwork of rules and regulations in place have created an Alice in Wonderland alternate reality.

You see, some companies drill for oil and some drill for natural gas but few companies drill for both. The companies that drill for oil are interested only in oil. To them, natural gas is a waste product to be disposed of as cheaply as possible. Since they are not in the gas business, they do not drill near where natural gas pipelines are available. Rather than capture it and transport it to the nearest pipeline, it is just cheaper and easier to release it into the atmosphere or burn it.

Cheer up, some good news (unless you own shares in US coal, or face a job loss), watching Youtube last night, and between funny cat vids, I saw this approx - 8mins 45 to 10mins 45

In the last year 7 coal business have filed for bankruptcy, and several more have registered that they may be unable to meet debt repayments.

Also, whilst coal provided 48% of US leccy in 2008, it's down to ~25% for 2019 and 22% expected next year.

No real need to watch the vid ..... if you trust me. :think:

Tesla Time News - Model Y Spotted!

Martyn1981 · 22 October 2019 at 9:15AM

Probably been waffling on about Highview and LAES (liquid air energy storage) now for over 5yrs, so good news to see that they are now to build a commercial version (they've built smaller test facilities).

It's 'only' 50MW/250MWh but their design is modular and they suggest deployments of 100MW to 200MW with up to 10-15hrs storage (3GWh).

First commercial liquid-air storage project gets go-ahead

Liquid air: Highview Power debuts plan to build 'Europe's largest storage system'

Green, ethical, energy issues in the news

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