2Nd Charge

Burnedout77 · 15 July 2019 at 5:37PM

This is a mess, so I hope to keep it simple
2010 signed a 2nd charge on my property for 20k with an individual
2011 business fell apart
2013 he bankrupted me But in his petition said he had no security in my estate
2016 release from bankruptcy, trustees report gave no dividends
2019 he contacts me to tell me I owe him £34.5k (made up of interest)

I contact OR he confirms that the Loanee did not submit proof of security. I have been told to pay him nothing

Hard bit. I asked him to remove his charge as the debt it related to had been included in the bankruptcy. He refused.

So can I get a court order to have it removed. If so, how do I do this. Can I do it myself, or do I need to hire a solicitor to do it.

Thanks in advance for your advice

JCS1 · 15 July 2019 at 5:41PM

Bankruptcy doesn't cover secured loans - unless of course the secured loan becomes unsecured by repossession of the property.

Did you keep the property and buy the Beneficial Interest from the OR?

Burnedout77 · 15 July 2019 at 6:08PM

No. Non of the above

OR has told me that he needed to show his cards at the time of the bankruptcy to position himself in the list of creditors. HE put down in the petition for my bankruptcy that held no security.
OR has been quite helpful in implying he feels that the loanee has used deception to keep an interest in the estate for a later date. And that I should seek legal advice.
I just wondered if there was a method of apply to a judge to have it removed

WhenIam64 · 15 July 2019 at 6:24PM

2010 signed a 2nd charge on my property for 20k with an individual

2019 he contacts me to tell me I owe him £34.5k (made up of interest)

Can't make that work. Is he claiming statutory interest - which is at the discretion of the court?

Or is it contractual interest?

debt_doctor · 15 July 2019 at 6:34PM

Hi,

Are you still in this home or are you now in rented property / another property?

The creditor wouldn't be able to claim interest on a bankruptcy debt as any after bankruptcy costs in relation to a bankruptcy debt are 'contingent liabilities' - part of the bankruptcy.

It seems like the creditor released / relinquished their security to be part of the process - but managed to forget to have the charge dissolved!

Do you have the original petition paperwork that clearly has his declaration of no security?

DD

debt_doctor · 15 July 2019 at 7:07PM

45.135 Grounds for the order

The court must not make an order unless it is satisfied that the debt or one of the debts in respect of which the petition was presented has not been paid or secured or is a debt which the debtor has no reasonable prospect of paying [Note 56]. To determine ‘reasonable prospect’, it is assumed that the position the debtor presented to the creditor at the time he entered into the transaction resulting in the debt, gave him a reasonable prospect of paying [Note 57]. Hence with no other change in circumstance, a petitioner cannot subsequently claim that a debtor has no reasonable prospect of paying if the position of the debtor has not changed.

The court may make a bankruptcy order if satisfied that the statements contained in the petition are true and the debt had not been paid or secured for [Note 58].

DD

Burnedout77 · 15 July 2019 at 7:37PM

Yep. I still have the documentation. Also the OR emailed it to me today, and highlighted point six, which says he holds no security

Burnedout77 · 15 July 2019 at 7:48PM

What I need to know is, Can I get a court order for its removal? The guy acknowledges that he has no power to claim the debt. But refuses to give up the charge.

debt_doctor · 15 July 2019 at 8:07PM

The only way I can see you removing the charge is by applying to court on form N244 - This costs £255 unless you are exempt or can get reduced fee (fill out form EX160 to find out).

You can attach to this form a witness statement where you would outline your case that the creditor informed the Insolvency Service that they had surrendered their security in order to petition for bankruptcy.

Therefore the charge should be dismissed and the Land Registry informed accordingly. Also that any claim for interest on this bankruptcy debt would be a contingent liability and therefore also dismissed as part of the bankruptcy.

DD

debt_doctor · 15 July 2019 at 8:11PM

Agrees he has no power to claim the debt but is asking you for £34500??!

You are still in this property arn't you?

DD

Burnedout77 · 15 July 2019 at 8:26PM

Yes I am still in the property.

Thanks for your help. This is dynamite

2Nd Charge

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