Charging Order? The myth

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  • faye242
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    Hi, I am hoping for a bit of advice...


    My partner's ex wife is buying him out of their house (remortgaging in sole name).


    He has 3 restrictions in his name on it, looking into them, they are form K restrictions. I have asked her to make sure her conveyancer knows how to deal with this but she isnt keen on me so prob isnt going to be helpful.


    Can we 'notify' them ourselves to ensure it was done? how is it supposed to be worded? I can only find info on APPLYING them online!


    I am fighting to get statementys of what is owed and to who, is there anywhere I can get the original value etc from?



    If I email the land regisrty for help, would they explain restrictions and requirements so I can pass it to her conveyancer?



    I am tempted to offer full and final payments before, would this remove the need to notify them? Is it legal to offer full and final before a sale? (I dont want to end up foul of the law, but want to help the best I can)


    Im sorry if that seems a lot of dumb questions...but I am going in circles online now and need some plain English,


    Thanks in advance xxx
  • eggbox
    eggbox Posts: 1,774 Forumite
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    Hi Faye242

    You ex's partner won't be able to re-mortgage unless the Form K Restrictions are removed. This is because the mortgage lender will insist on being the first charge on the property deeds. Any remortgage without dealing with the Restrictions would put any new lending behind the Restrictions (through date order) and the lender won't agree to that.

    So it's not the same situation as if both your partner and his ex were selling the property to a third party when notificaton to the Restriction holders would be required.

    So its the lender who has to be satisfied in this scenario not the creditors. But if your partner contacts his creditors and can agree a F&F settlement with them; then this information can be given to the lender to explain the Restrictions on the property are being removed with the re-mortgage funds settling the debts and that should ease the path to get things sorted.

    And to put your mind at rest (regarding the Law); the debts are your ex's so he can request a F&F settlement of the debts anytime he likes.
  • Rangers123
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    We have now emailed both conveyancers to advise that providing the form K restriction is complied with and the named (on the register) creditor is notified of the sale by two or more registered owners for value then it will be overreached and automatically cancelled when the purchase is registered.

    The buyer's conveyancer contacted us initially to query whether the above was still true in light of the fact that the creditor, a company, had been dissolved. Our response sign-posted them to our guidance on corporate insolvency. As a result, and perhaps quite naturally, I assume they contacted your conveyancer to assist.

    Although the creditor's insolvency is relevant as to the debt/the CO it is not relevant with regards the overreaching of the form K restriction in the circumstances mentioned above.
    I have highlighted in the thread a few times how the devil is always in the detail re the Qs asked of us but in this case whilst I believe the reference to the creditor's insolvency caused us to answer as we did, we should have explained the above and how it did not impact on the requirements for the sale overreaching the form K restriction.

    Your conveyancer raised their own enquiry with us in an effort to remove the form K restriction. Removal in this case was not required as explained but doubtless our reply to the buyer's conveyancer caused them to then refer.
    Our response then sought to explain how the insolvency affected the debt and how the Treasury Solicitor, for the Channel islands in this case, might be involved. Those details are in the original response and today's additional reply.

    Your conveyancer has been provided with an explanation of the specifics involved and additional information re how the creditor's insolvency may affect the debt. However as already stated that is after the sale/purchase has completed and does not impact on how we would treat the purchaser's application/automatic cancellation of the form K restriction.

    Provided the restriction is complied with as per the registered details and the application is to register a transfer as described I do not envisage any further issues.

    eggbox from a wider perspective this example does not alter the position already shared and explained in your thread. The corporate insolvency is not significant to how a form K restriction might be overreached and automatically cancelled.

    The creditor's insolvency has, from a registration perspective, the same impact as say the debt being sold on as unless the register reflects such a change of circumstances a purchaser/their conveyancer need only comply with what is actually registered and not 'chase the debt' so to speak. The debt is the seller's concern after all in such cases and not the purchaser's

    The relevance of the Treasury Solicitor, there is also a Channel Islands 'version, is not significant re the overreaching. They would be involved re the actual debt hence reference to them in Rangers 123's posts previously

    Just as an update following Land Registry's intervention, the sale went ahead last week. The buyer's solicitor was still reluctant even with a letter from the Land Registry that they'd satisfy the conditions of the restriction. So I agreed to let my solicitor hold back £2000 from the sale to cover the debt and interest should it be determined who now owns it (never did hear back from the Treasury Solicitor), until the title is transferred to the new owners, then they'd release the final amount to me.

    Out of interest, how long does it usually take to transfer the title?
  • Land_Registry
    Land_Registry Posts: 5,807 Organisation Representative
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    Rangers123 wrote: »
    Just as an update following Land Registry's intervention, the sale went ahead last week. The buyer's solicitor was still reluctant even with a letter from the Land Registry that they'd satisfy the conditions of the restriction. So I agreed to let my solicitor hold back £2000 from the sale to cover the debt and interest should it be determined who now owns it (never did hear back from the Treasury Solicitor), until the title is transferred to the new owners, then they'd release the final amount to me.

    Out of interest, how long does it usually take to transfer the title?

    Average timescale is currently around 9 working days
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • faye242
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    Hi Eggbox, I wanted to drop by and say thank you!! I have made arrangements for 2 of these charges now,


    I am struggling with the third...Just hoping the LR person here may be able to may be able to advise me...We have contacted the solicitor of the third charge...they cant find much of anything and are going back to Hitachi....We have contacted Hitachi numerous times...they cannot help us...we have given the reference number we have, we have emailed with the full details of the charge (copied and pasted rom Tiitle deeds), no-one can tell me how much this charge is for or who I need to contact. I am tempted to fill in an RX3 and see if that puts a fire up someone!! Do you have any advice on this you could offer? We have the potential of enough from the sale to offer full and finals to help us...but the risk is that this charge could take it all as I dont know how much its for?? Or even if it is still valid!! What should we do??


    Faye xx
  • eggbox
    eggbox Posts: 1,774 Forumite
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    Hi Faye

    I'm glad you're managing to get things sorted. LR may be able to impart some information but he's not able to offer "advice" as there could be legal implications if he does? But I would say that applying to have the Restriction removed (RX form) is the right way to go given what you have related?

    If you decide to do that then I'm sure LR will then be able to help explain what the procedure is once they have received the application?
  • Land_Registry
    Land_Registry Posts: 5,807 Organisation Representative
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    faye242 wrote: »
    Hi Eggbox, I wanted to drop by and say thank you!! I have made arrangements for 2 of these charges now,

    I am struggling with the third...Just hoping the LR person here may be able to may be able to advise me...We have contacted the solicitor of the third charge...they cant find much of anything and are going back to Hitachi....We have contacted Hitachi numerous times...they cannot help us...we have given the reference number we have, we have emailed with the full details of the charge (copied and pasted rom Tiitle deeds), no-one can tell me how much this charge is for or who I need to contact. I am tempted to fill in an RX3 and see if that puts a fire up someone!! Do you have any advice on this you could offer? We have the potential of enough from the sale to offer full and finals to help us...but the risk is that this charge could take it all as I dont know how much its for?? Or even if it is still valid!! What should we do??
    Faye xx

    Whilst you can make an application to cancel a restriction at any time using form RX3 as I am sure you will appreciate the key aspect is the evidence provided along with the form to confirm that it can be cancelled. We will cancel the restriction if we are satisfied that the restriction is no longer required. The application must be accompanied by evidence to show that this is the case.

    We don't simply contact the beneficiary because someone has applied to cancel their restriction. We need more than that I'm afraid so an RX3 with no evidence won't put the fire up anyone I'm afraid

    On the face of your post it seems you have no evidence to demonstrate that it is no longer required.

    You say you do not know how much it is (was) for? Have you applied for a copy of the application form and evidence (if any) submitted at the time? Is it a form K restriction or something else and if so have you contact the court (if involved) to clarify the details?
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • eggbox
    eggbox Posts: 1,774 Forumite
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    Have you applied for a copy of the application form and evidence (if any) submitted at the time? Is it a form K restriction or something else and if so have you contact the court (if involved) to clarify the details?

    LRR, as has been highlighted many times on this thread; the Courts often state they have no records of the application or the order made as it is too long ago?
  • Land_Registry
    Land_Registry Posts: 5,807 Organisation Representative
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    eggbox wrote: »
    LRR, as has been highlighted many times on this thread; the Courts often state they have no records of the application or the order made as it is too long ago?

    Understood although OP makes no mention of age of the entry/debt so just covering the bases re possibilities
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • eggbox
    eggbox Posts: 1,774 Forumite
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    faye242 wrote: »
    We have contacted Hitachi numerous times...they cannot help us...we have given the reference number we have, we have emailed with the full details of the charge (copied and pasted rom Tiitle deeds), no-one can tell me how much this charge is for or who I need to contact.

    I think that indicates its been a while :)
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