Company has been bought out. Have I been stitched up. Also TUPE questions.
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mickym
Posts: 456 Forumite
I will try and keep this as straight to point to aid those willing to help/who have advice, as my story is quite long, and could easily be confusing! I am also trying to keep things that won't identify me either.
I have employed for 16 years in my current job (6 years commuting to an office, and 10 years working remotely after we became a 'virtual company').
During this time there has been many changes, and company restructuring, due to the investors in the company having multiple businesses, and shifting things about helped with cash flow / tax reasons.
There has always been the following business set up though, both owned by the same investors:
COMPANY A = The main income that pays pretty much all the wages/costs of both companies.
COMPANY B = A separate business that we develop our own ideas, projects, or take on client work. As Company A didn't need staff working all the time on it, it made sense to have this company to make further profits. So effectively Company A was a client of COMPANY B.
I have carried out work for both these companies over all my years working there.
In 2015, the main investors wanted to cash in on one of the big assets that COMPANY A..
My MD and another Manager struck a deal with the original investors to take over the running of the company without that major asset. I am unaware if they put any financial investment into this deal, from what I can gather they took it on as a risk as a running business rather than paying for it. Thankfully it paid off and continue to run ok and make a profit.
In the process of this deal, COMPANY B was closed, and a new company was created. Identical in what it did, and changed by name only, with the MD and manager becoming Directors of this company too.
COMPANY B opened offices 200 miles away from me where the Manager was based, but I remained working with them remotely and making regular visits for meetings.
The MD and Manager have worked with these businesses for as long as I have.
I only found out about the deal they struck with the original investors when it had almost been completed, and at the time i was concerned and frustrated that I wasn't offered in on the deal as I had been there so long with the company putting a decent amount of work into things, always reliable and definitely made my contributions to its successes. However it was at a time where my parents were very ill in hospital, and I put them and my family first and I couldn't face trouble/stress at work too trying to argue the case. I also thought that by biting my tongue and letting the deal go through smoothly would put me in good favour to negotiate things for myself at a late date.
During my time there the MD has mentioned a few times during meetings, and also 'suggestively' in emails I have that it was the plan to gain control of the companies ourselves and for us to profit from any future sale of the business.
Since this ownership change in 2015 I have predominately worked for COMPANY B on their projects, however my contract is with COMPANY A.
I found out a few weeks ago that COMPANY A is to be sold off for a very decent sum, and the staff will remain at COMPANY B.... but as Im contracted to COMPANY A I am going to be either made redundant or have my contract TUPE'd over to the new owners (I am waiting to hear if the new owners want to keep me on).
As the main bread winner in a family with two children my priority is to still keep money coming in so keeping myself in employment is the most important thing at the moment, but I cant help but feel annoyed that despite all my input I could end up leaving the company with absolutely nothing.
I have already mentioned to the MD that I felt that after all these years working for the company and that the sale of the company for such a good price that its disappointing that I haven't received any form of bonus from it (I never expected an equal share, but some sort of share). He replied saying, that we will just have to wait and see how things pan out.
I said that COMPANY B will now have a position available for my role, and could I apply for it as they know i am more than capable of doing the job, however they are saying that having someone in the office there rather than working remotely is a big consideration in the decision, so im taking that as unlikely they would take me on.
Im presuming I don't have a leg to stand on, and I have to pin my hopes on the new company taking me on with my current contract terms, but would be interested in any help or advice?
I have employed for 16 years in my current job (6 years commuting to an office, and 10 years working remotely after we became a 'virtual company').
During this time there has been many changes, and company restructuring, due to the investors in the company having multiple businesses, and shifting things about helped with cash flow / tax reasons.
There has always been the following business set up though, both owned by the same investors:
COMPANY A = The main income that pays pretty much all the wages/costs of both companies.
COMPANY B = A separate business that we develop our own ideas, projects, or take on client work. As Company A didn't need staff working all the time on it, it made sense to have this company to make further profits. So effectively Company A was a client of COMPANY B.
I have carried out work for both these companies over all my years working there.
In 2015, the main investors wanted to cash in on one of the big assets that COMPANY A..
My MD and another Manager struck a deal with the original investors to take over the running of the company without that major asset. I am unaware if they put any financial investment into this deal, from what I can gather they took it on as a risk as a running business rather than paying for it. Thankfully it paid off and continue to run ok and make a profit.
In the process of this deal, COMPANY B was closed, and a new company was created. Identical in what it did, and changed by name only, with the MD and manager becoming Directors of this company too.
COMPANY B opened offices 200 miles away from me where the Manager was based, but I remained working with them remotely and making regular visits for meetings.
The MD and Manager have worked with these businesses for as long as I have.
I only found out about the deal they struck with the original investors when it had almost been completed, and at the time i was concerned and frustrated that I wasn't offered in on the deal as I had been there so long with the company putting a decent amount of work into things, always reliable and definitely made my contributions to its successes. However it was at a time where my parents were very ill in hospital, and I put them and my family first and I couldn't face trouble/stress at work too trying to argue the case. I also thought that by biting my tongue and letting the deal go through smoothly would put me in good favour to negotiate things for myself at a late date.
During my time there the MD has mentioned a few times during meetings, and also 'suggestively' in emails I have that it was the plan to gain control of the companies ourselves and for us to profit from any future sale of the business.
Since this ownership change in 2015 I have predominately worked for COMPANY B on their projects, however my contract is with COMPANY A.
I found out a few weeks ago that COMPANY A is to be sold off for a very decent sum, and the staff will remain at COMPANY B.... but as Im contracted to COMPANY A I am going to be either made redundant or have my contract TUPE'd over to the new owners (I am waiting to hear if the new owners want to keep me on).
As the main bread winner in a family with two children my priority is to still keep money coming in so keeping myself in employment is the most important thing at the moment, but I cant help but feel annoyed that despite all my input I could end up leaving the company with absolutely nothing.
I have already mentioned to the MD that I felt that after all these years working for the company and that the sale of the company for such a good price that its disappointing that I haven't received any form of bonus from it (I never expected an equal share, but some sort of share). He replied saying, that we will just have to wait and see how things pan out.
I said that COMPANY B will now have a position available for my role, and could I apply for it as they know i am more than capable of doing the job, however they are saying that having someone in the office there rather than working remotely is a big consideration in the decision, so im taking that as unlikely they would take me on.
Im presuming I don't have a leg to stand on, and I have to pin my hopes on the new company taking me on with my current contract terms, but would be interested in any help or advice?
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Comments
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But you won't leave with absolutely nothing, you'll be leaving with 16 years redundancy. While it would have been nice for them to acknowledge your input with a little bonus you certainly aren't entitled to this, it isn't your company. They take the risks, they reap the rewards.0
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https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/redundancy-payBut you won't leave with absolutely nothing, you'll be leaving with 16 years redundancy. While it would have been nice for them to acknowledge your input with a little bonus you certainly aren't entitled to this, it isn't your company. They take the risks, they reap the rewards.0 -
I know, and perhaps others may look at it as sour grapes on my part.... I can totally understand that, and as I say, i doubt I have any leg to stand on here. Its just that what has happened with the sale, was discussed at times in the past and it was portrayed that we would all benefit from it, and yet I have now been left out.
With redundancy now capped by the Government i doubt id get as decent sum as I may of been entitled too before regulation changed (unless they are feeling generous), also there is the concern that should the new owners want me to change my ways of working i.e. expected to now daily commute rather than working remotely (which allows my wife to work part time and gives flexibility for our childcare requirements) I could end up with having to leave and looking for a new job
I think my current mood is due to the unknown. I have been told my contract will be TUPE'd over, and that I would meet my new employers, but I have yet to have been given any date to meet them.
I don't know if this is a sign I am due to be made redundant or not.
Its been a few weeks now since I got the news, and I believe the final transfer of the business will be in the next week.0 -
Thanks Prowla.
Out of interest, do I work out those figures based on my current salary?
My salary has gone up over the years, so didn't know if it was based on my final salary, or i had to work out what I earned at different salary levels i have been on throughout my career there?0 -
Shouldn't take it personally with redundancy. Companies change and life moves on.
Aside from the redundancy pay advice given, the only other advice would be to:
- Consider modifying your contract to fit in with their requirements (this may well be an attractive option when you think in terms of the bigger picture, as many jobs you apply for may not allow you to work from home)
- Log onto a job search site right now and get applying
- Ask your wife, who has been working for over 10 years and only had her contract cut to part time after maternity, to pick up some more hours whilst you are on JSA.0 -
There's a calculator somewhere off that site too.Thanks Prowla.
Out of interest, do I work out those figures based on my current salary?
My salary has gone up over the years, so didn't know if it was based on my final salary, or i had to work out what I earned at different salary levels i have been on throughout my career there?
I think it's your current salary, but it's capped at something relatively low anyway.0 -
Are you disagreeing with something I've said or just providing more information? If you're suggesting he may not possibly be entitled to redundancy I agree, it depends on circumstances but I assumed he'd already checked that with the company. Perhaps not.0 -
If the shares in company A are getting sold, TUPE doesn't apply.
In this case, it is simply that the current shareholders in company A would sell their shares to the new investors. Your employment contract would still be with company A.
TUPE does not apply where the shares in a company are being bought. It only applies where the assets of a company (or individual) are being transferred to another company (or individual).
The new investors would then be able to decide what happens to company A. They could keep things the same or they could make redundancies.
I think you are getting ahead of yourself and worrying prematurely. If the new management of company A want to make you redundant, there is quite a long process they need to go through to legally do that.
I would wait until the redundancy process actually kicks off before worrying too much. As you have 16 years' service you will be entitled to at least 12 weeks' notice of dismissal, plus there may well be a formal redundancy consultation process the employer has to go through.0
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