Final salary pension transfer
Options
Howards
Posts: 39 Forumite
Hi folks am recently reviewing another DB transfer and would appreciate some help/feedback/views/opinions etc....
Current Position.... male 58 ..... wife 58
£300,000 in Sipp
£50000 shares
£20,000 in shares
£600,000 house value £600,000 no mortgage
CETV...£512,000 and would get flexibility but lose guarantee
Pension quoted £11725 or £10845 with early retirement reduction 0.925
OR.....TFC £60,000 & £9000 pens.....is this a good commutation rate
GMP should increase value of circa extra £5000 at 65
Wife has a guarantee annuity pens circa£4,000
CETV looks good value but could wait further year and review again .....??
Could take pens early and get extra couple years payments.....would take years to make up difference but would then lose transfer option
Any thoughts or ideas welcome/appreciated
Thanks
Current Position.... male 58 ..... wife 58
£300,000 in Sipp
£50000 shares
£20,000 in shares
£600,000 house value £600,000 no mortgage
CETV...£512,000 and would get flexibility but lose guarantee
Pension quoted £11725 or £10845 with early retirement reduction 0.925
OR.....TFC £60,000 & £9000 pens.....is this a good commutation rate
GMP should increase value of circa extra £5000 at 65
Wife has a guarantee annuity pens circa£4,000
CETV looks good value but could wait further year and review again .....??
Could take pens early and get extra couple years payments.....would take years to make up difference but would then lose transfer option
Any thoughts or ideas welcome/appreciated
Thanks
0
Comments
-
Pension quoted £117250
-
Commuting cuts income by 2725 to get 60000 capital, a 22:1 commutation value, on the high side.
DB pension now 10845. Inflation increases on at least some of it, probably capped at 2.5%, 5% or some of each. Probably a spousal pension, maybe 60%.
A transfer value of 512000 using income drawdown assuming 1.5% a year of ongoing costs could produce:
1a. 16384 a year with uncapped inflation increases on a 30 year plan, 100% spousal pension or 15360 on a longer plan. 3.2% or 3.0% of capital using 4% rule with UK investments. Higher likely if you don't live through very bad times.
1b. 22626 for 9 years then 13859 for 21 years or 21759 for 9 years then 12992 for longer. Higher drawing to bridge gap until state pension age. Otherwise like 1a. 8767 * 9 = 78903 leaving 433097. 3.2% = 13859, 3.0% = 12992.
2a. 25600 a year variable usually with inflation increases but sometimes not or with extra 10% cut or increase depending on the times you live through, 40 year plan, UK investments, 100% spousal, Guyton-Klinger rules, initially 5% of capital.
2b. 30421 variable for 9 years then 21654 for 31. Same basis as 2a, adjusted to bridge to state pension age like 1b.
3. Some combination.
The b versions take more for 9 years to cover the lack of a state pension, producing a smoother income profile. For convenience I've assumed that the bridging portion grows with inflation so numbers are largely in today's money.
The more modern Guyton-Klinger rules recognise that people can be flexible so they can start higher and adjust when needed.
As usual for private sector transfers at the moment the transfer looks good with substantially higher expected income, greater flexibility, probably better spousal protection and better inheritance.0 -
The pension if I take it now is £10,845..... 0.925 is early retirement charge
Thanks for your reply0 -
Apologies Joe....pension is at 600
-
Thanks James
Can confirm couple of other points excess pension increases with CPI
Excess pens in payment increases with RPI up to 10%
Was previously RPI until 2011
50% widows
3% increase on some portion of GMP
Both have state pension of circa £8000
Not sure how you have arrived at commutation think pens difference is £1845 ..? bit confused on that
Will digest your other figures and get back
Agree on flexibility that’s the attraction to the transfer..... numbers also look good but think figure maybe higher next year but obviously no guarantee
Must admit bit torn really as have the Sipp and suppose could use DB for guaranteed income
Also the increase in GMP at 65 is significant........ or not.?
Just feel unsure what’s optimum route and trying to get my head round stuff
Thanks for your help0 -
what's your health like?
and your wife's?
and health / longevity history of your respective parents / grandparents / families?
Put it another way are you budgeting for 20 years or 40 years?The questions that get the best answers are the questions that give most detail....0 -
DB pensions are longevity and market crash insurance so in doing a transfer you are swapping an insurance product for an investment product. The potential income numbers usually favour transfer from a DB plan to a DC plan, but you must also consider the added risk you are taking on and the reduction in the diversity of your finances. With the nice nest egg you already have maybe you can afford to have a very low risk retirement and keep the DB plan. Alternatively maybe you can also afford to take the added risk of being completely DC. My personal experience is that having a DB plan takes pressure of my DC investments and keeps my BP low.“So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”0
-
bostonerimus wrote: »DB pensions are longevity and market crash insurance so in doing a transfer you are swapping an insurance product for an investment product. The potential income numbers usually favour transfer from a DB plan to a DC plan, but you must also consider the added risk you are taking on and the reduction in the diversity of your finances. With the nice nest egg you already have maybe you can afford to have a very low risk retirement and keep the DB plan. Alternatively maybe you can also afford to take the added risk of being completely DC. My personal experience is that having a DB plan takes pressure of my DC investments and keeps my BP low.
Excellent response.
Also DB puts less pressure on any LTA limit should this become an issue.0 -
Yes very well put bostonerimus..... does feel finely balanced and guess the company are working on that ...... making an offer tempting..... like your view on pressure off DC because of DB
and can understand Keeping BP low👍..... thanks for your comments
Thanks also mgdavid ..... both wife and myself currently ok health wise and long may it continue
My father still alive at 82 but in a home with dementia last 3 years
Wife’s father 88 and also in a home
Would like to think budgeting longer term for at least one of us but both hopefully please God🙏
Think with GMP pens could be nearer to 20k at 65..... then transfer doesn’t seem so attractive..?
Appreciate your thoughts.... thanks0 -
Yes very well put bostonerimus..... does feel finely balanced and guess the company are working on that ...... making an offer tempting.....
Reflects the underlying cost of an open ended committment to fund your benefits. DB schemes are making no secret of their wish to offload their liabilities. As the cost to them is increasing all the time.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 343.2K Banking & Borrowing
- 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 449.7K Spending & Discounts
- 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
- 608.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 173.1K Life & Family
- 247.9K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards