Help needed with liability orders and enforcement...does anyone know...

Alexa33 · 12 June 2018 at 8:24PM

Hello everyone,
I am new to this forum but not new to the csa-unfortunately. I have a few questions to fact check, that's if anyone knows the answers and in return I will see if I can help anyone from my own knowledge of the csa.

Am I correct in thinking that a liability order granted for the csa, whether it be in 2001 or 2016, does not expire?

Also,

Is it possible for a liability order granted for an earlier period, say 1999 to 2002, to later be added or included in a second application, say for period 2005-2015 so that becomes 1999-2015?

I hope it makes sense in the way I have written it.

Thank you for reading

jimd-f · 13 June 2018 at 9:38AM

a Liability Order does not expire but covers a debt for a specific period.
subsequent LO's can be made for later periods but will not be amended to cover any other dates than that for which the new debt applies.
it is not uncommon for CSA/CMS to have more than 2 LOs on some cases but practically, unless these later LOs are to be used to get a charge on a property or for use in taking your ex to court for a possible jail sentence then there is no real point in just getting a continuous number of LOs.
the enforcement department should be using the threat of further action on the back of existing LOs to try and gain compliance and do in fact use this quite successfully.

Alexa33 · 13 June 2018 at 4:10PM

Hi Jim,
Thanks for replying. It's not my ex; we are the nrp side. Although the case is now closed, we have had a time of it and after looking through two data files it appears the csa acted out of jurisdiction and unlawfully. A liability order was granted on old rules case when there was no jurisdiction as case should have been closed but wasn't. Alledged arrears due pre July 2000 so unenforcable. But with the mess of it, no one had a clue what the other was doing.

There is a gap of three years where we thought the pwc wasn't wanting to claim but now suspect she was messed about.

New rules case opened but mismanaged and again arrears accrued. This time yes some but nowhere near the amount they claimed but because we owed something thing they were granted the liability order. Thing is they added on the amount for the old rules case as well.

So now there is liability order 1 for old rules
liability order including old rules and new rules.
Is this correct? I thought you couldn't apply for a liability order for the same debt twice? It's why I questioned if they expired.

They tried to go for a third but it was thrown out as the figures were completely made up and nothing was owing.

Thank you for your help

jimd-f · 14 June 2018 at 9:07AM

you can't have a LO for the same debt twice
the original debt pre 2000 is now probably unenforceable and it looks to me that what has happened is that in changing from the old CSA 1993 scheme to the 2003 scheme the records got messed up and so they applied for a LO for the whole debt. you should ask them to check the debt and dates and for them to squash that LO.
I presume now your case has moved to CMS and there has been some problems with cases with arrears as the correct dates and amounts of existing LOs were not always put on the new scheme correctly.
they did issue letters around the move of old debts to the new scheme and you were time limited on confirming that your total debt was correct. if you did not respond promptly to these letters then CMS would assume that the debt was correct and would not go back to check on the figures unless you could show how they were wrong.
I suggest you give them a figure that you believe is the correct arrears after 2000 and request a full account breakdown of the case from the outset. make sure you do this in writing, a copy will help at any further LO hearing.
they will be reluctant to do this, but explain nicely that without a correct debt figure you are unable to make a payment.
it may be easier to contact your partners ex and try to reach an agreement to either close the case or pay them something to close the case just to get the matter resolved

HoneyNutLoop · 14 June 2018 at 11:55PM

Can you clarify:
Did they obtain a liability order for the old scheme debt within 6 years and then obtain a 2nd liability order for the old scheme debt and new scheme debt, effectively having the old scheme debt covered by both orders?

If so, the old scheme debt is not unenforceable as the first liability order remains valid and was obtained in time. What would require correction is the 2nd order, so that it is only for the new scheme debt.

If the above is not correct in terms of what was secured under which order, could you post a clarification please?

Alexa33 · 14 October 2018 at 2:05PM

Hi, sorry for such a late reply.
To clarify: they obtained a csa old scheme liability order out of time. Then over a decade later obtained a second liability order including old scheme and new scheme.

It is a mess...

I know have confirmation that this is wrong and unlawful.

Again, sorry for late reply but thank you for your reply.

Help needed with liability orders and enforcement...does anyone know...

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