Work hours query
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Nightworker
Posts: 3 Newbie
Hi, Am after some advice about work hours please as I am starting to think I must be an idiot...
I started a new job last September working nightshift in a supported living home. There are two night workers, one on shift, one off shift (4 nights on and 4 nights off). We lone work. Anyway, to my query. The nightshift hours per week total 77. The hours each night of the week vary between 9 and 13. We work four on, four off so work different hours each week (I may work 33 one week and my colleague 44 and vice versa). Either way after seven weeks we arrive back on the day / where we started, and have both worked exactly the same amount of hours over the seven week period. We are contracted 37.5 hours per week (all staff, including day staff, have paid breaks).
My query is: Are the nightshift workers being shortchanged? I think we are working an average of 38.5 hours per week instead of the contracted 37.5. All the day staff including deputy manager etc. say I am not working more hours than 37.5 contracted because it “evens out over the year”. I have also been told: “those have always been the hours worked and they are right”, “the person who worked them out 10 years ago knew what they were doing and would not have got it wrong” etc. For nine months I feel I have been ignored and day staff now openly say it is not being looked at because they know I am wrong! The other night worker has been doing this for 7 years! She also queried her hours when she started and was told the same and never questioned it again.
Please, am I going nuts? We are paid the same each month based on an average of 37.5 hours per week so monthly pay is always the same.
77/2 = 38.5 average per week - regardless of actually how many hours we work in any given week. It is the average that counts. Either way... after our 7 week rota we are both back to the start again and have worked the same hours between the two of us (77*7) then divided by 2 (of us).
It’s starting to annoy me... where is my maths going wrong?
Really hope someone can tell me where I am going wrong with my sums.
Thank you very much.
Nightworker.
I started a new job last September working nightshift in a supported living home. There are two night workers, one on shift, one off shift (4 nights on and 4 nights off). We lone work. Anyway, to my query. The nightshift hours per week total 77. The hours each night of the week vary between 9 and 13. We work four on, four off so work different hours each week (I may work 33 one week and my colleague 44 and vice versa). Either way after seven weeks we arrive back on the day / where we started, and have both worked exactly the same amount of hours over the seven week period. We are contracted 37.5 hours per week (all staff, including day staff, have paid breaks).
My query is: Are the nightshift workers being shortchanged? I think we are working an average of 38.5 hours per week instead of the contracted 37.5. All the day staff including deputy manager etc. say I am not working more hours than 37.5 contracted because it “evens out over the year”. I have also been told: “those have always been the hours worked and they are right”, “the person who worked them out 10 years ago knew what they were doing and would not have got it wrong” etc. For nine months I feel I have been ignored and day staff now openly say it is not being looked at because they know I am wrong! The other night worker has been doing this for 7 years! She also queried her hours when she started and was told the same and never questioned it again.
Please, am I going nuts? We are paid the same each month based on an average of 37.5 hours per week so monthly pay is always the same.
77/2 = 38.5 average per week - regardless of actually how many hours we work in any given week. It is the average that counts. Either way... after our 7 week rota we are both back to the start again and have worked the same hours between the two of us (77*7) then divided by 2 (of us).
It’s starting to annoy me... where is my maths going wrong?
Really hope someone can tell me where I am going wrong with my sums.
Thank you very much.
Nightworker.
0
Comments
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4 on 4 off is a 8 week cycle with average 3.5 days per week
how do you get a 7 week cycle?
it is actually much simpler as for a regular 77 hour week cover split equally between 2 over time that would be 38.5 hour weeks.
There is a secondary issue because 2 people cannot cover a 4 on 4 off shift pattern because of holidays.
if you have to cover each other then that complicates the situation regarding holiday allowances as you should get more that the standard prorata (28*3.5/5) 19.6.0 -
Thank you very much for your reply. We are both full time workers. The 7 week cycle comes from 7 days per week... 4 on 4 off means after 7 weeks we are back where we started. I.e. If I start shift on Monday it is seven weeks and I am back to starting Monday again. The hours each day vary... e.g. Monday 10 hours Tuesday 9 Wednesday 13 Thursday 12 etc... either way they add up to a total of 77 hours Monday to Sunday. Due to 4 on 4 off we naturally work very different hours from each other each Mon to Sun week but they always add up to 77 and over 7 weeks we’ve both done the same amount.
My argument with the boss is the night hours should add up to 75 not 77 which would give us an average of 37.5 not 38.5
Unfortunately work don’t see it that way and went as far as telling me to add up all my hours for the year! It shouldn’t matter what my hours are over a year.... 38.5 hours average over 7 weeks x 7 for 49 weeks of the year mean We have both worked 49 hours ‘over’ each already. The crossover from year to year shouldn’t matter as we are paid a salary based on an average of 37.5 hours per week.
Sorry it’s so confusing.
We get AL in hours 240 something which includes all bank holidays. We can cover each other for a couple of nights added on to our four nights but not 4 nights (it’s too much to work 12 nights back to back like that; casuals / day staff on rest days also cover AL.
Thank you very much for your reply.0 -
4 on 4 off is a 8 day cycle in 7 day weeks, it takes 8 weeks* for that extra day to cycle round to the same start day in the week.
you don't have to do any averaging over the cycle, if the 2 people are covering 77 hours equally over any time period then that's 38.5 each long term it may be up a bit or down a bit but the way the maths works
it has to be 38.5 * 2 to get to 77.
*
starting day of the week for the on period followed by 3 more on then 4 off
1. Mon
2.Tue
3. We
4. Tur
5. Fri
6. Sat
7. Sun
8. rest of the 7 days for the 7th shift makes up week 8
9. Mon cycle restarts week 90 -
Nightworker wrote: ».....
We get AL in hours 240 something which includes all bank holidays. We can cover each other for a couple of nights added on to our four nights but not 4 nights (it’s too much to work 12 nights back to back like that; casuals / day staff on rest days also cover AL.
Thank you very much for your reply.
holidays are defined in weeks with a statutory min of 5.6 that makes your holiday allowance of (240/5.6) 42.86.
if they are using 37.5 that would be 6.4 or 32days for a regular(Mon-Friday) full time worker
How many days does the normal 5 day full time workers get & what is described in the contracts?0 -
looking at your maths and taking into account the whole year this is my workings
Managerial version 37.5 hrs x 52 weeks = 1950 hours per annum
Your version 77 hours (over two weeks) x 26 (fortnights in a year) = 2002 hours per annum
this leaves a discrepancy of 52 hours which would you believe means you are working on average ...... 38.5 hours a week (not including any overtime)
I would show your workings to management and ask them to show their workings or see if (though unlikley) you have made a mistake in your figures. However if they still disagree with you your only other actions are much more formal raising a grievance which may make things harder at work. If you go down this path I would have a union in place and if you are not part of one join one and keep your membership going.0 -
Use a spreadsheet and add up what you do over a year. It'll take some time to do but then you can print it off and show them.
I'd do it if you told us the hours you work each day.0 -
What do you hope to achieve here? Because unless you are hourly paid, you aren't likely to get any more money (possibly a miniscule amount if you are on the minimum). What will probably happen will be that your colleague who had been there seven years will get a variation of contract changing her working hours now that they've realised there's been an error in it. If you are lucky, you will also get that variation. What is quite possible, however, is that you will instead get your notice.
Of course the third option will be that the employer decided to review all contracts, and removes the paid breaks for all staff, which they don't have too give. That will make you so popular with everyone else, that dismissal might be a relief!0 -
Thank you all very much for your replies. It is very much appreciated.
It will get sorted eventually. Thankfully there’s no shortage of jobs available within the care industry so if I do get sacked... I’m unlikely to upset my colleagues as I go in an hour early most nights so they can get off early. My choosing and I’m a good worker with integrity. I’m also too old to let it become all consuming; however, now and again my principles run away with me. Financially I have an occupational pension and am not short of money. Not all are as fortunate and my counterpart, much younger single mother, would have made good use of the money, however small. Perhaps a treat for the children. The low paid do count pennies.
Many thanks for all your advice.
:) 0 -
Does your figure of 77 night hours a week include breaks? An unpaid not-lunch break of 20 minutes a day would balance the two numbers.But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,Had the whole of their cash in his care.
Lewis Carroll0
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