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Advice needed pleeeeez being chased by a debt company
Jarrapad
Posts: 1 Newbie
About three years ago I received a letter from a company called Aktiv Capital alledging that I owed a company money from a credit agreement which, I think, was taken out in the early nineties, As far as I was aware I paid this agreement off but, because it was so long ago, I haven't any proof.
I visited this site at the time and sent them a letter, the template of which I got from this site which I have been unable to find when I have re-visited the site. The content of the letter was:-
In response to your letter dated I would like to inform your that I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company
I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.
1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number xxxxx.
2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.
3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not.
Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.
As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.
Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.
Thinking no more of the matter I took no further action, however I have just received another letter from this company saying
"We refer to your recent letter etc."
Your reference to the Statute of Limitations is not relevant. We do of course fully understand Statute but debtors and their advisors often misinterpret it. We have never advised that we will use litigation as a means to collect what is due, hence it is repeated that reference to the Act is not relevant.
Ther is no legislation that precludes a creditor from legitimately requesting payment of a debt, qhich remains outstanding, and due. Indeed we could argue that any debtor who recognises that such a debt exists, has a moral obligation to address their responsibility. A bank or finance house has provided a credit facility, consequently it is up to that customer to honour his obligations.
The orogonal creditor has confirmed that there is an outstanding balance currently amounting to £xxxxx. If you believe tha account has been fully repaid, would you please provide evidence of such repayment, peerhaps by way of a receipt or a paid in full letter. The original creditor has no record of the account being repaid.
If it is the case that you have simply overlooked this account because of it's age, we are prepared to be constructive and apply a significant discount rather than consulting with our Solicitors about potential further action. Therefore Entirely without prejudice, we would be prepared to accept 50% of £xxxxx as full and final settlement of the account. We need to receive payment, of the discounted balance within 28 days.
We look forward to hearing from you as soon as possible, and please telephone if you need to discuss payment spread over a period of time.
I'm sorry that this is so long winded but I am absolutely flabbergasted that the content of my original letter has been completely ignored, that they've quoted some, as far as I can see, irrelvant legislation jargon at me and that has taken this company over two years to reply.
Has anyone else out there had similar dealings with this company and can anyone give me any advice on what the next steps I should take, it would be greatly appreciated.
I visited this site at the time and sent them a letter, the template of which I got from this site which I have been unable to find when I have re-visited the site. The content of the letter was:-
In response to your letter dated I would like to inform your that I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company
I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.
1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number xxxxx.
2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.
3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not.
Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.
As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.
Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.
Thinking no more of the matter I took no further action, however I have just received another letter from this company saying
"We refer to your recent letter etc."
Your reference to the Statute of Limitations is not relevant. We do of course fully understand Statute but debtors and their advisors often misinterpret it. We have never advised that we will use litigation as a means to collect what is due, hence it is repeated that reference to the Act is not relevant.
Ther is no legislation that precludes a creditor from legitimately requesting payment of a debt, qhich remains outstanding, and due. Indeed we could argue that any debtor who recognises that such a debt exists, has a moral obligation to address their responsibility. A bank or finance house has provided a credit facility, consequently it is up to that customer to honour his obligations.
The orogonal creditor has confirmed that there is an outstanding balance currently amounting to £xxxxx. If you believe tha account has been fully repaid, would you please provide evidence of such repayment, peerhaps by way of a receipt or a paid in full letter. The original creditor has no record of the account being repaid.
If it is the case that you have simply overlooked this account because of it's age, we are prepared to be constructive and apply a significant discount rather than consulting with our Solicitors about potential further action. Therefore Entirely without prejudice, we would be prepared to accept 50% of £xxxxx as full and final settlement of the account. We need to receive payment, of the discounted balance within 28 days.
We look forward to hearing from you as soon as possible, and please telephone if you need to discuss payment spread over a period of time.
I'm sorry that this is so long winded but I am absolutely flabbergasted that the content of my original letter has been completely ignored, that they've quoted some, as far as I can see, irrelvant legislation jargon at me and that has taken this company over two years to reply.
Has anyone else out there had similar dealings with this company and can anyone give me any advice on what the next steps I should take, it would be greatly appreciated.
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Comments
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am i right in thinking that they have only just replied to you after 2 years???
are they taking the mickey??
and you didn't comment on statute of limitations.. you asked for signed credit agreement, deed of assignment and statement of account. They are seriously giving you the jargon here!!!
i'm not sure what the next step would be after a 2 year break between letters. hopefully rog2, weller or RAS will be along soon and advise0 -
Tell them to get s****ed.
OFT debt collection guidance (designed for creditors: you can find it here: http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf state that the following business practices are unfair:
2.6 e: failing to provide debtors or creditors with information on status of debts, for example, not providing requested balance statements when reasonable requested
2.6 h: Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled and/or are disputed, and continuing to make unjustified demands for payments
2.8 i: failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly persued
2.8k: not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt
Regaring state barred debt:
2.14b it is unfair to persue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing during the relevent limitation period... [and] continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statute barred could amount to harrassment contrary to section 40 !!1} of the Administration of Justice Act 1970
In addition, if Aktiv Kapital have failed to send the signed credit agreement and 12 days have elapsed since they received the request, they are now in default. If 40 days have elapsed they are committing a criminal offence.
Complain to the OFT and to trading standards, stating that you believe their actions make them unfit to hold a consumer credit license. DO NOT allow them to bully you into acknowledging or paying the debt. There are templates to send to them warning them that you will take them to court if they harrass you further. Weller and RAS (edited to add I can't believe i forgot Rog2) are great at this stuff, I believe. It might be worth being a bit cheeky and PM'ing them to see if they can help.
Who the heck are AK to take the moral highground?! Pot, kettle, anyone care to guess what colour they are?
Hope this helps
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BLACK?????
think silver charming has given some sound advice there!!!0 -
As they are claiming you have a 'moral' obligation to pay the debt, they're just trying it on. It costs them very little and I'm sure some people are scarred into paying up. If they had a leg to stand on they would be quoting worse.
:j :j
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I have to agree with SC in that I think that they ARE 'Trying it On'.
1. Your letter was a request for a true copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement and the DCA SHOULD have supplied you with a copy within 12 working days. Failure to do so would have rendered the 'agreement' irrideeemably unenforceable, without them obtaining a Court Order.
2. NOT to have supplied the copy of the cca within a further 30 days means that the DCA has committed a CRIMINAL offence and you would be entitled to complain to the Office of Fair Trading, or Trading Standards, who may instigate procedings against AK which could result in their 'License' being revoked.
3. The 'reply' that they have sent you is their 'standard' reply to a letter where a debtor is refusing to pay an 'alleged debt' because it is 'statute barred'. This means that provided a 'debtor' has made no payment towards, nor acknowledged, in writing, an 'alleged debt' for a period of six years (five in Scotland) the debt is covered under the terms of the Limitations Act, 1980, and, once the 'debtor' has told the creditor/dca that he will not pay because the debt is 'statute barred' (the ONLY reason he need give) the creditor/dca can no longer pursue the 'debt' through the courts. Equally the dca SHOULD stop chasing, by any means, as this is in contravention of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines, and any further contact, by the dca, could be interpreted as 'harassment' contrary to the Section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act, 1970.
So in conclusion - AK, not unsurprisingly, have ASSUMED that you would not be paying this 'alleged debt' because it is 'Statute Barred' rather than sending you a copy of the original signed CCA, which YOU had requested, and to which you were LEGALLY entitled. So already ONE Criminal Offence by them.
This is, most probably, because AK had 'purchased' the 'alleged debt' for pennies and probably didn't EVER have a copy of any cca. However it does NOT matter as they would have been obliged to provide it whether or not they were the original Creditor.
Judging by your opening post, the debt was almost certainly Statute Barred, making it unenforceable. See http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=25_liability_for_debts_and_the_limitation_act
Whilst, personally, I would just ignore the letter, this won't stop them from further harassing you. You might wish to send them the 'statute barred' letter, or talk to National Debtline - 0808 808 4000 - who may be able to advise the best course of action, or even write to AK on your behalf.
Good Luck.I am NOT, nor do I profess to be, a Qualified Debt Adviser. I have made MANY mistakes and have OFTEN been the unwitting victim of the the shamefull tactics of the Financial Industry.
If any of my experiences, or the knowledge that I have gained from those experiences, can help anyone who finds themselves in similar circumstances, then my experiences have not been in vain.
HMRC Bankruptcy Statistic - 26th October 2006 - 23rd April 2007 BCSC Member No. 7
DFW Nerd # 166 PROUD TO BE DEALING WITH MY DEBTS0 -
told you rog2 would be along soon!!
thanks rog for all your excellent advice!!0 -
told you rog2 would be along soon!!
Spaniel - you are MORE than welcome. I have just started a new job, and am on training for the next couple of weeks, before going on to evening shift, so I can't spend as much time on the boards as I would like to - but I'm not skiving - honest.I am NOT, nor do I profess to be, a Qualified Debt Adviser. I have made MANY mistakes and have OFTEN been the unwitting victim of the the shamefull tactics of the Financial Industry.
If any of my experiences, or the knowledge that I have gained from those experiences, can help anyone who finds themselves in similar circumstances, then my experiences have not been in vain.
HMRC Bankruptcy Statistic - 26th October 2006 - 23rd April 2007 BCSC Member No. 7
DFW Nerd # 166 PROUD TO BE DEALING WITH MY DEBTS0 -
Congrats on the new job Rog! :grouphug:
I started a new job a few weeks ago too, but luckily it's all on days and in any case they're surprisingly good about letting us nip onto the net during breaks
You'll have to give us a bit more of your wisdom to pass on while you're not around!
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congrats on the new job rog2, pop back when you can!!!0
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I have the same problem as Jarrapad. My first letter from Aktiv Kapital arrived out of the blue Nov 04 requesting payment of a balance they said i owed. I telephoned, wrote a letter and emailed requesting proof of the balance and who it was from. No answer until March 05 where they still requested the balance but gave no proof again. No contact until Oct 07 where a letter requested the so called balance to be paid but offered a 50% reduction if it was paid straight away. Nov 2nd they sent another letter complaining i had not replied and that they would basically not go away until the so called debt was paid. This time i sent back a letter quoting relevant sections of the OFT Debt Collection Guidance and said i would take legal action if they failed to provide the proof i have repeatedly requested. I now await a reply........0
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