'Gross Misconduct' Help

Jillica

Iamthesmartestmanalive wrote: »

And this post shows there were right

Your son's GF had no right to take the stuff off site, it should have been left over night for collection the next day

The company may have done a lot to the mail after to abide by the DPA and your son's GF at best has shown a disregard for policy which is gross misconduct and at worse theft or the like

She can appeal all she wants but their decision and procedures seem pretty reasonable

Yeah, I would have left the rubbish over for next days collection too, but for 18 months shes been doing it so she didnt think it was a problem!
Nobody had ever mentioned it to be wrong to take stuff and put it in her own bin before then!
If you are not trained or have any knowledge in the DPA, How can she really disregard a policy, when she never knew there was one. If thats the case then surely her boss who just chucked the information in the bin without correctly disposing of it is also disregarding the DPA and she should be held accontable too!
I think leaving a bag of rubbish outside an office door, with sensitive info in it also breeches the DPA as anyone could have picked it up and rooted through it. I have been in touch with the Information Commisionars Office who deal with all aspects of the the DPA for advice. They say that although she threw it away, the person actually using the sensitive information has the right to dispose of it in the correct manner ie her boss!

Also I would like to ask when they told her on the letter to take a friend with her, is this right? Im sure if she thought the matter warrented gross misconduct and thought she might have been sacked, she would have took advice, and someone in with a bit of knowledge, not just a mate.
Her boss actually told her before the hearing, 'dont worry about it, if it was me i'd let it go but as its the business, ive got to make it look like im following the correct procedure'
No wonder shes upset about it all!
Cheers
Jillica

ohreally

Jillica wrote: »

Also I would like to ask when they told her on the letter to take a friend with her, is this right? Im sure if she thought the matter warrented gross misconduct and thought she might have been sacked, she would have took advice, and someone in with a bit of knowledge, not just a mate.

The employer would most likely have advised,"you have a right to be accompanied". this is a statutory right. It is incumbent on her to arrange to be accompanied by someone appropriate.

You've indicated that she intends to appeal, on what grounds have you set out the appeal and does she have someone to prepare and present a statement of case?

You do realise that you can't submit a letter along the lines of "i don't agree with the decision to terminate my employment therefore i wish to appeal the decision" and expect the decision to be overturned?

Jillica

Hi and thanks to everyone who has took the time to read my posts.
If definitely said on the letter that she could bring a friend/family with her!
I have a friend whose job in company she works in, is to deal with disciplinary hearings and appeals.
She has written the appeal letter for her. It contains a few points if I remember rightly, one being the lack of trainging/knowledge on the disposal of rubbish. Another point is that the letter from the Environmental Health letter was sent on the 23rd Jan and they never mentioned it to her until the 8th Feb. They obviously knew for all that time and still allowed her to dispose of the rubbish everyday! There is a Law or two quoted in there and it also says that it is illegal not to be registered with the Information Comissioners Office (this office deals with all aspects of the Data Protection Act and they are not on the register)
Its a really good letter, I hope they like it!!!
Anyway, if my freind cannot attend the hearing, it looks like I will have to go. What will I be expected to do and say?
Cheers everyone!
Jillica

N9eav

Jillica wrote: »

Anyway, if my freind cannot attend the hearing, it looks like I will have to go. What will I be expected to do and say?

Jillica

Why would you go, your friend should go really. You might be able to go as support too.
It seems to me that we have all been going on about the rubbish being taken home. Now that you mentions about the lack of registration too, this company has been operating in a cowboy fashion.
Taking rubbish away from the office means just one thing..... They don't want to pay the council business rates for rubbish collection.
Secondly with all this media attention on the misplacement of personal data, they have been caught out by that too...So someone has to be the scapegoat... Looks like it's your friend.
Thirdly if they are not registered and should be, that could be another angle.
Fourth even, They should have had a shredder if they are dealing with personal date
Could be an interesting case.... The publicity could be quite bad for the company. Why not consider a pay off?
Could also be worth having a free consultation at the solicitors. Or any union?

annie-c

Hi Jillica

In retrospect it sounds as though the girl has behaved in a foolish (though not intentionally malicious) way, with commercially sensitive data.

If an appeal is to be succesful then I think it will be really important for her to acknowledge that she now knows that what she did was very foolish and that she has learned a lesson from it.

The management appear to have been rather more than foolish in all this. How to handle it really depends on what outcome you are seeking.

If the girl really wants her job back then a little contrite grovelling might be more appropriate than confrontation. The others involved are human and will want to save face and in order to get what she wants she may have to be willing to help them out and accept some blame herself. Personally I don't know if I would want to go back under these circumstances though and it may be too late anyway from their perspective.

If what she wants is some compensation to tide her over while she finds a new job and a promise of a clean reference, then it would be a good idea to seek advice from ACAS. THings won't be easy or quick to resolve, but in most cases where employees take their employers to tribunal, there is a strong chance that they will win , despite their own failings, because most employers are a bit slipshod when it comes to implementing their HR policies. The company may well want to settle out of court with a compromise agreement which binds the girl to confidentiality but agrees a settlement including redundancy pay and details of references to be provided. Seek professional advice from ACAS though, in order to be taken seriously.

I hope things come good for her. She is only young and seems to have made an honest mistake. I hope she is not feeling too badly about it all xxxx

Jillica

Hi
I think the real reason she has been sacked is for the fear of further investigation and repercussions on their part, especially as the company is not registered with the ICO.
She did write a really groveling letter that she took to the disciplinary hearing, not that it did any good!
You’re right, she doesn’t want to work there again but when you have to put on your applications that you have been dismissed it doesn’t look good!
The reason I will have to go to the appeal meeting is because my friend who’s been helping us in this matter lives in Wales and we are in Yorkshire. She probably will not be able to make the appeal meeting but will prepare everything for us!
By the way, I forgot to mention that the company my son’s girlfriend works for goes into other companies and trains them how to team build, how to get the best performance from employees and how to sort any problems out and how to train employees to better themselves when they are not reaching there full potential!
I think they ought to practice what they preach!!!
Thanks to everybody’s help and suggestions!
I will ring ACAS tomorrow!
Cheers
Jillica xx

Luvly.cuppa.T

The disciplinary letter that the girl should have received should also say that she could face dismissal- does it?

Again I would say that the company are at fault as they did not deal with the confidential documents properly in the first place, ie shredded.

What exactly was she sacked for? It should state it in her notifcation letter of dismissal.

Jillica

Hi
I dont think it said on the letter that it could lead to dismissal, I will check tomorrow.
The reasons for dismissal were disposing of waste illegally and disposing of condidential information!
She asked for minutes of the meeting afterwards and none were provided, nobody took any so she didnt expect any really.
They have used this as an excuse to get her out IMO.
Just thought of another thing one of her bosses said to her at the meeting 'well at least it shows you dont go raking through the bins' that made me laugh. They also asked her about how she was managing on her own since her parents had moved to Spain and even asked my son how his operation went! Didnt realise these sort of questions had anything to do with her dumping litter!
Dont think the appeal meeting will come to much, there's only 2 bosses and my son's g/f so they arent going to change their minds but at least it might make them treat the next young naive worker they get a bit better. I bet they buy a shredder now haha!
Even the Environmental Officer said he felt sorry for her as he thought they had treated her really harshly. He wished her well in her search for a job and said he hoped her next employeers treat her alot better than the last!

Cheers everyone and nite nite xx

annie-c

Jillica wrote: »

Hi
They also asked her about how she was managing on her own since her parents had moved to Spain and even asked my son how his operation went! Didnt realise these sort of questions had anything to do with her dumping litter!

It seems to me they may well be relying on the fact that she is a young girl whom they believed to have little support. Good on you for getting so involved.

The outcome they need from the appeals process is to be 100% sure that they have treated her fairly in order to avoid the cost and potential embarassment of a tribunal. So print off some advice from Acas, run a highlighter through bits of relevance and pop it on top of the file that you place on the table in full view when you sit down in the meeting. Be confident and tell them you are delighted to have the opportunity to help them to resolve things amicably for her........

Jillica

annie-c wrote: »

It seems to me they may well be relying on the fact that she is a young girl whom they believed to have little support. Good on you for getting so involved.

The outcome they need from the appeals process is to be 100% sure that they have treated her fairly in order to avoid the cost and potential embarassment of a tribunal. So print off some advice from Acas, run a highlighter through bits of relevance and pop it on top of the file that you place on the table in full view when you sit down in the meeting. Be confident and tell them you are delighted to have the opportunity to help them to resolve things amicably for her........

Hi

I think you have hit the nail on the head here, Sammi's mum and dad have noved to Spain and as she is really quiet and keeps herself to herself, I bet they thought she would just put it down to experience and look for another job. I bet they didnt think for one minute she would appeal and even the Environmental Officer is going to write a letter for the appeal saying it was a mistake on her part to dump the rubbish. Also her lack of training on sensitive info is down to them so they should take part of the blame.
We'll just have to wait and see!
I feel so sorry for her, her brother lives over the road from her and she is too scared to say she had been sacked, so she gets ready and pretends she's going to work!
What sort of situation is that where she darent mention it to anyone!
I ought to mention that in the appeal and hope they feel like c**p!
Anyway time for work so thanks for listening!
Cheers
Jillica xx