Husband's nightmare employers, please please help

lea

Hello

Please can I have some advice. My husband found a job through the Jobcentre website as a delivery driver for a local firm. He started work on 1st November and his first pay cheque bounced, so they paid him in cash, and the second month they advised they were having difficulties setting up the BACS system so paid cash again. My husband found it a bit suspicious as he never received a contract of employment or pay slips.
He pestered his bosses for wage slips over a few weeks in Jan/Feb, to be told on the phone by his boss 'you're p***ing me off, keep hassling me, you're a f***ing c***'. My husband nearly told him where to shove the job, but didnt because we were desperate to get the money he had worked for, so he intended to wait until pay day and leave.
He was due to be paid on 9th February for January's work, and they kept making excuses, saying they were having financial difficulties but would pay him asap, until Tuesday this week they told him that they were no longer carrying on the delivery contract that my husband was working on and they needed to let him go with immediate effect because they couldnt afford to keep him on and had no other work for him. They said they would settle up with him asap.
My husband did not know what to do, and after various telephone conversations with his bosses it seems they are not going to pay up. First he was told that they would pay him at end of March when they received the final payment from their contract, then they said that one of them were going bankrupt and couldnt afford to pay him. They then said that there was a scratch on the van done by my husband, it was going to cost £850 so thats why they were withholding the money!!
We decided to put it in writing that we wanted the £1920 owed by next week, otherwise we would take matters further and also claim for the 5 days holiday he had accrued, the notice period that he didnt receive and should do, plus any costs and interest.
We have recieved a reply with an invoice which details numerous damages to the 2 vans that my husband drove, saying that he has damaged them to the total of £1675!!!! They also state "As you have decided to withdraw your services with no notice period or forewarning we have no option but to hold monies that you would have earned against damages to the van. I have included an invoice for £1675 which represents damages to the vehicles. Once this is paid we would be happy to release the month's salary that you have earned. I look forward to hearing from you or your Solicitor in due course' !!!!!

So they are trying to make out he walked out!!
The only damage to the van my husband admits to, was another van drove past and knocked his wing mirror which smashed the glass, and he reported it to them straight away. He has been a driver since 2003 for various (professional) firms and he said that these vans were in the worst condition. There were cracks across the windscreen (not in eye level) which were done before he started, and even had to remind them to tax the vehicles. He also reported a bald tyre, which they laughed and said they would swap it for another which was slowly puncturing!

I realise we have been stupid for putting up with it for so long, but has anyone got any advice as to what (if anything) we can do?
I'm angry that my husband has worked for nearly 2 months and will lose this money. I know we may have to put it down to experience but any help gratefully received.

Thanks
Lea

Conor_3

They cannot claim for damages to the vehicle unless its specifically stated in his contract which he never got.

I'd take them to small claims court.

philip

I agree that they have no legal case.
What to do is the problem.
In the short term you are unlikely to get your money via small claims so you do need to inform job centre to make sure you get benefits your husband is entitled to.
Withholding payslips is against the law as are a number of other things this employer has done, like not giving your husband written terms and conditions of employment.
If your husband had been working there for 12 months he would have a water tight case for unfair dismissal.
Just a thought, you do not have to wait 12 months if he can claim that he was dismissed in relation because he brought up H&S matters.Does this so called damage to the van constitute a H&S issue?
I really think you should give ACAS a call. This is the government advisory service on employment issues and I have always found them very helpful and on your side as well.
You will find the number in the phone book and they take calls Sat am as well, so get on with it and good luck!

Savvy_Sue

I don't know if this company has an Operator's Licence and I don't know if threatening them to the licensing body would help get his money ... but it's a thought!

Luvly.cuppa.T

...and definately tell the job centre about this. They certainly won't want a company like that being advertised again through them, and it would save another soul from this madness!

lea

Thanks for your replies on this.

This morning we had a 2nd letter through or door from the employers. To summarise, they say that whilst they are prepared to fight us in court, they are a small business and such action could force them into liquidation. They go on to say that they are not in best shape finiancially after their bank withdrawing their overdraft, and whilst they do not want to withhold money from my husband, they are upset by his cavalier attitude towards them and the damage to the vans. They go on to say:

"In an attempt to keep this as friendly as possible given the circumstances I am prepared to offer you the lump sum of £1200. This offer is a final one offer and also reflects a small portion of the damage that we are going to have to pay for ourselves for the vehicles. We believe this is fair and hope you can understand our reasoning. If you accept the offer that we will release a cheque for £600 for 10th March and the remainder again in the form of a post dated cheque will be paid on 28th March. The invoice for £1675 raised would be cancelled off. The alternative is to take each other to court for our respective claims and wait for the money. If we had it in one lump sum, then we would give it to you, it is that simple. I await your instruction."

Anyone got any suggestions on how to proceed?!?! The first wages which were paid by cheque bounced.......

Thanks again
Lea

Conor_3

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

I don't know if this company has an Operator's Licence and I don't know if threatening them to the licensing body would help get his money ... but it's a thought!

If they do have an O licence (if they run 7.5 tonners or HGVs they will have), then he has some leverage. He can tell his (former) employers that if he isn't paid, he's going to inform the Traffic Commissioner that he hasn't been paid and is worried they won't. As a matter of course, the TC will then carry out an in depth investigation into the company accounts as, under the terms of an O licence, the operator has to be of good repute and solvent with a set minimum amount of available funds for each vehicle to meet the operating costs.

Not paying wages is the first sign of them not being.

Savvy_Sue

Thanks Conor, it's a very long time since I knew anything about O licences, and I didn't know much then, except that they mattered!

I don't know what anyone else thinks, looks like this leaves you about £700 down, but if you got it you'd be £1200 up on where you are now, so ...

I might be tempted to accept it 'under protest', but say that if either of the cheques does not arrive as promised or bounces, then you will have no hesitation in reporting them to (any or all of) the licensing authority (if they have one), HMRC and the Job Centre.

Or I might insist on going to pick up the wages in cash, on the dates they mention. Except that would almost certainly cause huge hassle.

However, having said that, if a company goes bust owing wages is there not a govt scheme for paying the wages? Would that only apply to current employees? because whatever happened, your husband is no longer on the books. And how long does that take to kick in? If it applied, and you could afford to wait (unlikely I know!) that might get you more of what you're owed. ACAS should be able to advise on that kind of thing.

Just my thoughts - I await more knowledgeable people!

Loretta

As he got the job at the Job Centre and it is all so recent and the most important part of all this is to get the money that is owed to him as soon as possible I think the best thing to do is to go to the Job Centre as soon as possible and tell them what is happening to make sure that he gets any future JSA allowance and to stop them sending another poor person for a job and they would have advice for him and I am sure that with their help this will be resolved. I am sure that if the Job Centre contact the firm it will be sorted out they would not be able to make these threats to the JOB Centre. He should absolutely not be treated like this and should not try and deal with it himself. Phone Acas as well

Some people are real bullies

After he has his money he can get his own back by reporting the firm to all the different people mentioned in the other posts and any more that we can think of!

lea

Thanks again for all your replies.

Unfortunately the company only deal with small van's, not lorries etc so we cannot go down that route.

Our worry is that they know they are going to go under, so are somehow trying to stall us into taking action so its too late when they've officially gone insolvent. Whilst I was tempted by the offer of £1200, I don't see why should we have to wait til end of March/beginning of April, then the cheques may bounce anyway!

We spoke briefly to a local solicitor today, he says we can go down the route of claiming for the company illegally withholding money because of the supposed damage to the vans. They would then need to counter claim against us, having proof that my husband did the damage and also a signed contract stating that my husband agrees to be liable for any damage he causes. They have neither of those. My worry is that if they go under, we are not likely to be a preferential creditor?

We think we will proceed by booking an hour's session with this solicitor (at the cost of £150 plus vat) as he has said he would be able to write a letter for us to the employers. Do you think an official letter from a solicitor would make them pay up? We just want the money he has worked for-£1920. We are happy to forget the week's notice, holiday etc. A part of me just wants to fight this on principal to stop him bullying others in the future, although I have to admit the thought of losing this money is driving me forward too!

We hand delivered the original letter on Friday to the boss, he had a shiny 4x4 and another flash car in the drive, along with a van and a huge expensive looking caravan. We could see their huge flat screen on their wall in their living room. I know looks can be deceiving, but they didnt look like they were short of money....Its just so frustrating because this job was supposed to be a new opportunity for my husband, and to help us get back on track financially, and now this has happened!!

Thanks once again for your replies, and any further advice greatfully received.

Savvy_Sue

I think a call to ACAS would be worthwhile, just to see if there is any way your husband will be able to claim his wages from the govt scheme I think exists if the firm does go down the tubes. If he would, then there is no reason not to go all out, IMO. That will only cost you a phone call ...

If I knew what words to use to search for this on the ACAS or BERR websites, I'd be more use, I know!