LGPS Scotland and Ill Health Retirement

awrightson

Hoping someone may be able to advise on the following scenario.

Been of work for 12 months when work arranged an "Ill Health Capability" meeting at which my employer terminated my contract on grounds of ill health and me being unable to do my job amd was given 3 months notice period.

Ill Health Retirement was enquired about and they arranged for me to see Occupational Health who after seeing them said there was not enough evidence at that stage as I was still waiting on a diagnosis, so they were going to contact Specilaist and Gp for more information

Fast forward 3 months and they receive a letter from Specialist confirming diagnosis but it has arrived a day after the end date from my notice period.

Occ Health advised I do qualify for Ill Health Retirement and my employer is now saying it will be "deferred" which I am assuming will mean there will be no enhancements for Tier 1 or Tier 2.

Is there anything I can do to fight this decision? (if as I suspect this is the way things are heading)

Have read online that your employer shouldn't end your contract whilst ill health retirement process is ongoing, not sure if that is correct?

Any advice would be very greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance 

hyubh

awrightson said:

Ill Health Retirement was enquired about and they arranged for me to see Occupational Health who after seeing them said there was not enough evidence at that stage as I was still waiting on a diagnosis, so they were going to contact Specilaist and Gp for more information

Fast forward 3 months and they receive a letter from Specialist confirming diagnosis but it has arrived a day after the end date from my notice period.

Occ Health advised I do qualify for Ill Health Retirement and my employer is now saying it will be "deferred"

From your wording, it is unclear whether the 'Specialist' providing a 'diagnosis' was an IRMP under the scheme regulations providing a 'certificate' (IRMP = Independent Registered Medical Practitioner). But either way, the fact their diagnosis was received 'the day after' your notice period ended does not, on the fact of it, seem relevant. The diagnosis wasn't in respect of when it was actually received by the employer - how could it be, that was in the future! You requested an ill health retirement determination while still an active member of the scheme, it's irrelevant that this determination took longer to complete than your notice period. Plus an ill health retirement from deferred wouldn't be an (ex-)employer decision anyway (although I appreciate it may be the case than your employer is the administering authority).

If HR don't see sense, say you wish to raise an 'IDRP stage 1' complaint under the LGPS regulations.

Silvertabby

If you are saying that you applied for ill health retirement benefits AFTER you were dismissed on the grounds of ill health (albeit with a notice period) then yes,  strictly speaking, your application would be for payment of ill health benefits from deferment (no reductions for early payment, but no enhancements).  

You are now in the situation of asking for your ill health benefits to be backdated, which won't be easy.  As Occ Health seem to have made  their initial assessment in your favour, then that's a good step forward - but you will need help to take it further.  Is your union rep already involved?

awrightson

Hyubh thank you very much for your reply and it sounds as if all is not lost if I am understanding you correctly.

I will try and clarify the points you mention.

The "Specilist" was a NHS Consultant who had nothing to do with the ill health retirement. It was him who was contacted by Occupational Health for further information and ask if there was any diagnosis.

I am not entirely what you mean by "if employer is the administiering authority" but I would say they probably would be.

It is my employer who has informed me that it is to be a "deferred" pension and just waiting to hear more about what that exactly means. Have looked online and seen it suggested "deferred" meant there wwould be no enhancements paid for whatever Tier you may be placed in, you would just get the pension you had accrued.

You have given me a glimmer of hope though, thank you.

awrightson

Silvertabby thank you very much for your reply also.

The ill health retirement was asked about at the ill health capability meeting so it was all done at the same time.

Backdated as in from when my notice period finished?

Will be making contact with Union rep once I have clarity on what the situation is, sadly (for me) you don't paint as bright a picture as Hyubh did with regards to the possible outcome.

Silvertabby

awrightson said:

Silvertabby thank you very much for your reply also.

The ill health retirement was asked about at the ill health capability meeting so it was all done at the same time.

Backdated as in from when my notice period finished?

Will be making contact with Union rep once I have clarity on what the situation is, sadly (for me) you don't paint as bright a picture as Hyubh did with regards to the possible outcome.

Backdated to your last official day, even if you were on nil pay.  There are now so many hoops for ill health applicants to jump through......  How old are you?  The younger you are, the harder it may be for the Occ Health Dr to opine that you will be unlikely to be well enough to resume comparable work before SPA, especially if your illness is acute rather than chronic.  

Sorry if I'm being gloomy - i just don't believe that I'd be doing you any favours by giving you false hope.  But I do hope that things work out for you even if it means going down the IDRP route.

P.S.  In theory, your employer does have the right to refuse to approve an ill health package that has been given the green light by the Occ Health Dr - the paperwork has to go through them for final approval before being submitted to Pensions.   In practice, however, they wouldn't dare as they know that the Ombudsman would take a very dim view of such nonsense.   

Marcon

awrightson said:

Hoping someone may be able to advise on the following scenario.

Been of work for 12 months when work arranged an "Ill Health Capability" meeting at which my employer terminated my contract on grounds of ill health and me being unable to do my job amd was given 3 months notice period.

Ill Health Retirement was enquired about and they arranged for me to see Occupational Health who after seeing them said there was not enough evidence at that stage as I was still waiting on a diagnosis, so they were going to contact Specilaist and Gp for more information

I appreciate that this is LGPS Scotland, and I'm sure SilverTabby or another LGPS specialist will jump in if I'm wrong - but I'd expect the process to be similar to English counties(?).

Your post suggests that ill health early retirement hadn't come up until after you were dismissed. Is that correct? If so, it seems at odds with the guidance issued by Cambridgeshire in terms of when the possibility should be raised. I'm quoting from their guidance leaflet dated April 21 found as a Word document on Ill Health Retirement - pensions.cambridgeshire.gov.uk (look for Ill Health Retirement Pension Process: Guidance Note 1 - I can't find a way to give you a direct link).

When to start

1.          Typically an employer will have an ill-health management process with a number of stages.  When the ill-health pension issue is addressed will be subject to the employer’s specific processes BUT it must be addressed before the person is dismissed on ill-health grounds (but see specific guidance on people who change their mind or seek to frustrate the process).  It is recommended that processes are aligned so that:

·            everyone who is likely to proceed to actual ill-health dismissal has had the opportunity to have their case considered by the Independent Doctor;

·            the signed IHCERTA1 has been received before the final dismissal stage BUT no more than a couple of months prior to it;

·            the individual is informed of the result of the referral to the Independent Doctor and the likely pension entitlement following receipt of the IHCERTA1 and before the dismissal process finishes;

·            The issues around “treatment not yet exhausted” and “investigation not yet complete” cases are carefully communicated and dealt with – more details on this are provided below.

awrightson

Silvertabby

Again thank you for your reply.

Occ Health Dr did make me aware that they did not have the final say.

My concern is really focussed on "deferred" at this time.

Can I just check that I am understanding you correctly that you are saying that even though the losing of my job and the requesting of ill health retirement all happened at the same time, during my ill health capability meeting that it would still be classed as deferred? And it is not because the Specialists report arrived after my notice period had finished?

If that is the case would it have made a diiference if I had asked about ill health retirement before the ill health capability meeting took place?

Did my employer not have a duty to make me aware of the option of ill health retirement before the ill health capability meeting took place, given that I had been off work for 12 months?

And finally in your opinion is there any case to be fought for changing it from deferred to normal ill health retirement thus allowing for Tier enhancements to be added?

Apologies for all the questions! And thank you again for your thoughts/help.

awrightson

Marcon

Ill health retirement was asked about at my ill health capability meeting when my employer said they were not keeping me on any longer after me being off work for 12 months.

As you may see from my last post to Silvertabby that is something I also find strange that my employer didn't make me aware or suugest illhealth retirement before the meeting took place.

Just hoping there is a case to fight against the deferred pension, but could really be doing without having to take it on, but hey ho.

hyubh

Silvertabby said:

If you are saying that you applied for ill health retirement benefits AFTER you were dismissed on the grounds of ill health (albeit with a notice period) then yes,  strictly speaking, your application would be for payment of ill health benefits from deferment (no reductions for early payment, but no enhancements).

Interestingly enough, the LGA's guide for the LGPS south of the border interprets the 2014 regs as dropping that requirement. Neither the LGA's guide for the LGPS in Scotland, nor SPPA's statutory guidance, tackles the issue though.

Marcon

awrightson said:

Marcon

Ill health retirement was asked about at my ill health capability meeting when my employer said they were not keeping me on any longer after me being off work for 12 months.

As you may see from my last post to Silvertabby that is something I also find strange that my employer didn't make me aware or suugest illhealth retirement before the meeting took place.

Just hoping there is a case to fight against the deferred pension, but could really be doing without having to take it on, but hey ho.

These two questions are neither a challenge nor a criticism: they are simply a request for information. Did you ask about ill health early retirement at any point before the capability meeting? If not, why not?