Remote Work, unfair disciplinary, off sick

Undervalued

Tiiia said:

Undervalued said:

Tabieth said:

I really don’t understand. Can you post an (anonymised) screenshot of the letter? It’s not clear what the allegations are or what HR policy you are being accused of being in breach of. I’m not even sure if it’s a formal disciplinary matter or not. (Sorry if I’ve missed some of the details). 

You say you haven’t disclosed your health issues to your employer so you can’t really criticise them for not making reasonable adjustments. And I’m really unclear why you were using keystrokes on your break. If it’s an allowed break, why do it? It does come across as suspicious so I would have a very good explanation for that. 

Plus, even if the OP had disclosed their MH illness to the employer, it is only obligatory to consider "reasonable adjustments" if the condition amounts to a disability for employment law purposes. As I mentioned in an earlier post the majority of minor to moderate MH conditions are not, legally, disabilities.

Also, whilst a GP can diagnose the condition the patient has presented with and if appropriate advise them (via a "fit" note) to refrain from work then cannot usually for legal purposes provide an expert opinion as to the cause. Whilst the patient can tell the doctor that it all stems from work, for all the GP knows the cause could be far closer to home. It happens, frequently!

Hi, thanks all for your replies. GP does have a record of the happy pills from last year I was put on, but I found it gave me insomnia, but that's by the by.

He's going to have me assessed/referred for OCD/ADHD too, I guess it's my own fault for 'pushing through for decades 😔

As for work, I'll wait til the week after and see what's what. They might push with a disciplinary regardless, I hope not, but if they do, they do.

As has been said, you cannot expect your employer to have made "reasonable adjustments" for a disability of which they were not informed. The only exception the law makes for this is if the condition was so obvious that a lay (i.e non medically qualified person) must have been aware.

Have you now been signed off sick by your doctor? 

Even if you have, keep in mind that in itself does not mean you are automatically unable to attend a disciplinary meeting, particularly one held remotely by Zoom. They may well be cautious and delay but they don't have to.

saajan_12

Tiiia said:

Marcon said:

Tiiia said:

Hi, 

New boss wants to fire the department, due to budget cuts AI etc.

She wants to account for every minute of remote work, even when being at desk almost every minute.

For the past few yrs, I opted for super early lunch breaks to care for frail mother, but swiped periodically to stay in 'ready' mode by keystrokes, but as this is my lunch hour, I thought being available 24-7 for calls/zoom was handy for colleagues who needed me during break, but In hindsight, I should have just logged out the bloody thing.

Addition, I take VDU Breaks often due to dry eye epi-scleritus flareups (they don't know of any of my health/mental health issues because it never came up).

Put yourself in your employer's shoes...what conclusions would you be drawing? You 'opted for super early lunch breaks' to suit your domestic situation and made it look as if you were at your desk working. You've never alerted them to any health issues, but still expect them to accommodate your medical needs.

Tiiia said:

What I need to know is, can they still fire you if you're off sick, with mental or physical issues, as I've never been in this situation in over 25 years of employment? The stress has definitely taken its toll on me the last few days.

In short, I need to maximise time to find other work during any sick pay period if i opt for it, rather than get the push unfairly and going through the merry go round of appeals/tribunal etc 

A 'few days' is pretty normal for most people; not many cope year in year about without going through patches they find especially stressful.

Why do you think you can 'opt' for a period of sick pay as an alternative to being dismissed?

Tiiia said:

Can they penalise me for taking time off to deal with the culmination of issues, and point out that they think it is laptop "misuse".

I see some mental health attributes are protected according to Equality Act 2010 too, such as depression, anxiety, OCD ADHD etc which I can easily prove via private doctors (unless they find a way to auto-dismiss me without me actually having to be present).

They aren't penalising you for taking time off to deal with a culmination of issues. Any disciplinary action will be related to your own actions in terms of what will look to them a pretence of being at your desk. In other words, it's a breakdown of trust, not health, which is at stake here.

They didn't know about your mental health issues because you chose not to tell them, so forget playing that card.

Tiiia said:

Thoughts/advice, or has anyone been through something similar?

Plenty of people will have been through something similar, but their experiences are totally irrelevant to yours - although there is likely to be one common thread: telling the truth. Your best chance of keeping your job is to explain why you've been doing what you've been doing, making sure you highlight all the areas where you've been acting in the interests of your employer. Caring for your frail mother is admirable, but of no interest at all to someone running a business in a horrible economic climate, which is why you need to emphasise why your behaviour has not been to the detriment of your performance as an employee.

Tiiia said:

I think they she will cite gross misconduct,  as she has called a disciplinary immediately next week without so much as a hello, and I hear she has gotten rid of staff even older than me yet kept her friends on(!).

Quoting this sort of hearsay should pretty much guarantee a P45...so don't.

Marcon said:

Tiiia said:

Hi, 

New boss wants to fire the department, due to budget cuts AI etc.

She wants to account for every minute of remote work, even when being at desk almost every minute.

For the past few yrs, I opted for super early lunch breaks to care for frail mother, but swiped periodically to stay in 'ready' mode by keystrokes, but as this is my lunch hour, I thought being available 24-7 for calls/zoom was handy for colleagues who needed me during break, but In hindsight, I should have just logged out the bloody thing.

Addition, I take VDU Breaks often due to dry eye epi-scleritus flareups (they don't know of any of my health/mental health issues because it never came up).

Put yourself in your employer's shoes...what conclusions would you be drawing? You 'opted for super early lunch breaks' to suit your domestic situation and made it look as if you were at your desk working. You've never alerted them to any health issues, but still expect them to accommodate your medical needs.

Tiiia said:

What I need to know is, can they still fire you if you're off sick, with mental or physical issues, as I've never been in this situation in over 25 years of employment? The stress has definitely taken its toll on me the last few days.

In short, I need to maximise time to find other work during any sick pay period if i opt for it, rather than get the push unfairly and going through the merry go round of appeals/tribunal etc 

A 'few days' is pretty normal for most people; not many cope year in year about without going through patches they find especially stressful.

Why do you think you can 'opt' for a period of sick pay as an alternative to being dismissed?

Tiiia said:

Can they penalise me for taking time off to deal with the culmination of issues, and point out that they think it is laptop "misuse".

I see some mental health attributes are protected according to Equality Act 2010 too, such as depression, anxiety, OCD ADHD etc which I can easily prove via private doctors (unless they find a way to auto-dismiss me without me actually having to be present).

They aren't penalising you for taking time off to deal with a culmination of issues. Any disciplinary action will be related to your own actions in terms of what will look to them a pretence of being at your desk. In other words, it's a breakdown of trust, not health, which is at stake here.

They didn't know about your mental health issues because you chose not to tell them, so forget playing that card.

Tiiia said:

Thoughts/advice, or has anyone been through something similar?

Plenty of people will have been through something similar, but their experiences are totally irrelevant to yours - although there is likely to be one common thread: telling the truth. Your best chance of keeping your job is to explain why you've been doing what you've been doing, making sure you highlight all the areas where you've been acting in the interests of your employer. Caring for your frail mother is admirable, but of no interest at all to someone running a business in a horrible economic climate, which is why you need to emphasise why your behaviour has not been to the detriment of your performance as an employee.

Tiiia said:

I think they she will cite gross misconduct,  as she has called a disciplinary immediately next week without so much as a hello, and I hear she has gotten rid of staff even older than me yet kept her friends on(!).

Quoting this sort of hearsay should pretty much guarantee a P45...so don't.

well, it didn't actually dock from my contracted hours. It was lunch break/vdu and admin work It was just unusual to take it early, but am speculating here because I can't think of any other reason why she would pull me up 

...

Even if I was to argue the toss and continue my employment, it wouldn't be a nice place to remain if there is spyware for every minute. And god forbid any emergency situation. Thanks for your input, though. 

Did you have permission (or even notify) the company or your manager about the early lunch breaks? You can't necessarily 'opt for' whatever you want, as they might need to contact you at that time in the morning.

Spotting that you're using keystroke software isn't exactly 'spyware for every minute'. They may have noticed low productivity or delayed responses when they expected you to be working. This may have triggered an investigation, to find software running and random keystrokes for an hour (quite a lot of minutes) daily.