Please can anyone help me

Teddy080522

Help with annual leave,I have been with my company for 5 years,I booked 18 days annual leave,10 days which was paid,8 days wasn't paid,I queried this,was told I had 0,that's why I did not get any holiday pay for the 8 days.

I am a part time worker I work monday through to Friday at 4.5hrs a day,
My contract states I am entitled to 28 days,5.6 weeks and for a part-time worker it is pro rata.

I got in touch with my boss and was told I need to accrue holiday.

Please tell me if I am wrong 
I only thought you need to accrue holiday if you maybe you have started a company or have started part way through the working year.

My holidays by the way starts on 1st Jan ends 31st December.

So if he is stating I need to accrue holiday if I wanted to take maybe 5 days holiday in February for example I wouldn't be able to take any as I wouldn't of accrued it,and would be having to work 6 months to even gain 5 or 6 days.

Can anyone help me,if this seems right,I had sent him an email to which took him a month to respond to saying he has more important stuff to deal with and all the questions I wanted answers too,was just replied to I am a part time worker,no explanation of how,what or why it is being done like this.

I would be very grateful if I could get some response from anyone here,to see if I am completely wrong in thinking what I have said,or if he is completely right

swingaloo

What is your question?

comeandgo

They have paid you your sick days and said they were annual leave.  To be honest, I think they have done you a favour.  To have that many sick days recorded in 9 months would never enhance your future employment.

Brie

As I understand it taking days unpaid will reduce the number of days you get as holiday.  Frankly I think they have been misleading you by suggesting you take sick days as unpaid.  For one thing it means you won't get SSP and it also messes up your HR record.  Makes me think your manager is trying to fudge their records.

Grumpy_chap

Teddy080522 said:

Any help please to answering these questions 

I work part time Mon- Friday I get 28 days annual leave and work 22.5 hrs per week,

I've had 10 days sick so far this year, every time I'm off sick if I get asked I always take it unpaid,there's some txts where after saying I won't be in work the particular days I'm off i should of put i do not want to be paid so it's logged and i have proof in black and white

I've always messaged my boss telling him I won't be in today,but only can refer to 1 txt where he asked me do I want to take the dates as paid or unpaid,so again where i stated above i should of said each time I'll take this unpaid,so it's logged and i can refer back to this.

So as far as i was aware the 11 days were all unpaid,so everytime I've received my wage slip,my error I've never paid too much attention to see if i was unpaid or if i had been paid,i get 8 days bank Holiday included in my 28 days annual leave.so again my error when I've looked at wage slips,just assumed it was the right pay for the right hours I'd worked that month.

My annual leave starts from January 1st to December 31st

So from January upto September i never took any annual leave

In August i requested annual leave from September 30th - 11th October 10 days

November 6th-15th 8 days

Then 30th & 31st December 2 days

so thats 20 days altogether,

i gave more than 1 months notice for the September into October annual leave nearly 3 months notice for the November annual leave and 4 months notice for December annual leave,which was all approved 

I took the 10 days September/October annual leave checked my wage no problems i was paid all my holiday no problem.

I then went back to work for 17 days then took the 8 days November annual leave

My pay cut off is the 25th of each month so the 6th -15th 8 days should of been in my November wage 

I received my November wage slip received no annual leave pay at all

I got in contact with the person that deals with the wage slips,she said my pay was right ' i said it's wrong i have not received any of my holiday pay' so after going back and forth the last week,she has not really given me really any direct answers to why,so after nagging her she finally came out with i have 0 days annual leave left, and that i owe money back to my company for going over my annual leave,i said but how where so far all i have taken is 18 days annual leave so far this year.

So after going back through my last 11 months wage slips and looked properly i can see that one of the days i was off sick i have actually been paid annual leave,but again due to what i wrote previously,i should of looked properly and queried it at the time,so I'll hold my hands up and that's a mistake on my part.

So my questions are,should she of contacted me before doing payroll to say you've been off sick this month would i like it to be taken as annual leave or unpaid?

When i booked the whole 20 days back in August wouldn't it of flagged up on the system that I'd already taken 10 days annual leave if she's paid me for being off sick,so it would of shown i was trying to take more annual leave than i was entitled too?

As previously stated why approve all the holiday if i wasn't entitled too it all?

So from my 10 days annual leave i had off i went back to work for 17 days then that's when i took the 8 days annual leave,so she had from August to tell me i wasn't entitled to all the annual leave yet still approved it.

Why didn't she contact me to say unfortunately her error you are not to them 8 days annual leave,I'm so angry,if she'd of contacted me i would of been like okay i wont take them 8 days rather than lose out on 8 days of money,

I then messaged her and asked her if I could have a breakdown of my annual leave I've taken so far this year,she sent it too me,i messaged her back and said as an employer you should of contacted me and made me aware of this,i think that got her back up ,i messaged her during work times as to me this is a work issue,I'm not going to message her outside of work hours and her response was if i carry on contacting her during my work shift she will deduct the time off my wage slip,this woman is an absolute nightmare,

So the break down of my annual leave she sent is

1.04.24 off sick but refered back to my wage slip that was paid annual leave so that's 1 day

29.03.24 & 1.04.24 but that was the Easter bank holiday weekend which i get paid for regardless she said that was paid in error so confused about that 

13.05.24 again off sick refered to wage slip been paid annual leave

30.09-11.10.24 10 days so that's right i got paid

6.11- 15.11.24 the 8 days i did not get paid for, yet still saying on the breakdown that it's classed as annual leave

So 20 day annual leave in her breakdown 

Then underneath she has put 11 days sick,no you've paid me annual leave yet the breakdown you're saying its classed as sick so which is it?

This woman is getting right on my nerves to me so don't have a clue in what she is doing or saying.

I've litterly been though every wage slip since back from January to my November wage slip.

I've gone through every text message when I said I was off sick,they said I took 11 days,I've worked it out to be 10 days,and every day I've been sick I've referred back to the certain month wage slip and 1 of the day's I was sick they actually paid me annual leave,so I should of queried it their and then,but for the other remaining 9 days I have either not been paid the hours due to being off,and no where it says holiday pay for the dates I've been off.

Please can anyone help me

That is a long and quite confusing post.

You work 5 days per week.

You are entitled to 28 days annual leave.  Is that 20 days plus 8 Bank Holidays?

You had some sickness absence, 10 days, or 11 days, or 9 days (?).  One of those days was unpaid.  The remainder have been drawn from your annual leave.

You took no planned annual leave in the period January to September.

You requested 20 days annual leave in the period October to December.

If the above is correct, the 8 Bank Holidays are taken on Bank Holiday dates.

Of the 20 days' annual leave remaining after Bank Holidays, you have taken a number (10?) as sickness absence paid.

That leaves you with 10 days' annual leave, so the last 10 of the days planned in the period October to December will be unpaid.

Brie

Part time workers are often noted as working a number of hours per week rather than days.  

Where I was recently working it was policy that unpaid leave did not accrue any holiday time.  Generally that was because people would take a month off or similar to take an extra long holiday in addition to the holidays they did have that year.  (say for a honeymoon, or to deal with an ongoing family matter)

And having a day unpaid means it's not noted on the HR system as sickness.  This might be great as you may not have any or at least less sick days recorded but it is a fudge of how a manager manages a department.  Excessive sickness by an individual or a number of individuals shows that there are problems that need to be addressed.

Grumpy_chap

Teddy080522 said:

Am I reading my contract completely wrong?
It says you are entitled to 28 days 5.6 weeks underneath it says part time workers
are calculated pro rata,so why not say underneath what a part time worker is entitled to in days underneath aswell?so if i work mon to friday 22.5 hrs a week,I'm classed as a part time worker? and I've been told by  numerous people who work at the company i clean for,I'm not very clued up on these things as you can probably tell I've come to this forum, if i work mon to friday regardless if i work part time or full time I'm entitled to 28 days and the 28 days is including the bank holidays is this correct or not correct?

It seems as though your "part time" status is irrelevant here but may have been considered by payroll in assessing your leave entitlement if they considered pro-rata.

Everyone is entitled to 5.6 weeks annual leave each year. 
That includes Bank Holidays, which are 8 days in England(*).  8 days = 1.6 weeks for an individual working 5 days per week.
That means - for an individual working 5 days per week - the entitlement is 4 weeks (20 days) plus 1.6 weeks (8 days) Bank Holidays

We need to understand your full working pattern and the normal working pattern for the company you work at.

From your notes, the normal pattern for full time employees is possibly 5 days per week, Mon-Fri, 9 hours per day making 45 hours per week.
Your part-time pattern appears to be 5 days per week, Mon-Fri, 4.5 hours per day making 22.5 hours per week.
If that is correct, you are entitled to 28 days (being 4.5 hour days) annual leave per year.  8 of these days will be used as Bank Holidays.  Still leaves 20 days (4.5 hour days) of annual leave to be taken as per the company policy for authorising leave.  
It seems as though you have used some of the 20 days as annual leave taken while on sickness absence.

The reference to part time worker having annual leave on a pro-rata basis would be an academic consideration in the case I have described above.
However, it is possible that a half-assessment of the pro-rata piece has been done.  Reduced your total number of "full days" annual leave on the basis that you only work part time (50%).  If that has been done, then each day (period of 4.5 hours work) taken needs to be counted as only half-day's annual leave.  It would work out to the same outcome - entitlement is 28 days * 0.5 = 14 days.  Every time you take a day annual leave, it is half day used.  So you get 14 * 2 = 28 half days.  Which is the same as 28 days when each day just happens to have fewer hours.

There is, of course, a big assumption in the above, that your 22.5 hours week is a regular (but shorter day) working pattern of five days per week.

Hope that helps.

(*) I assume England but other parts of UK have differing Bank Holidays.

Grumpy_chap

Teddy080522 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Teddy080522 said:

Am I reading my contract completely wrong?
It says you are entitled to 28 days 5.6 weeks underneath it says part time workers
are calculated pro rata,so why not say underneath what a part time worker is entitled to in days underneath aswell?so if i work mon to friday 22.5 hrs a week,I'm classed as a part time worker? and I've been told by  numerous people who work at the company i clean for,I'm not very clued up on these things as you can probably tell I've come to this forum, if i work mon to friday regardless if i work part time or full time I'm entitled to 28 days and the 28 days is including the bank holidays is this correct or not correct?

It seems as though your "part time" status is irrelevant here but may have been considered by payroll in assessing your leave entitlement if they considered pro-rata.

Everyone is entitled to 5.6 weeks annual leave each year. 
That includes Bank Holidays, which are 8 days in England(*).  8 days = 1.6 weeks for an individual working 5 days per week.
That means - for an individual working 5 days per week - the entitlement is 4 weeks (20 days) plus 1.6 weeks (8 days) Bank Holidays

We need to understand your full working pattern and the normal working pattern for the company you work at.

From your notes, the normal pattern for full time employees is possibly 5 days per week, Mon-Fri, 9 hours per day making 45 hours per week.
Your part-time pattern appears to be 5 days per week, Mon-Fri, 4.5 hours per day making 22.5 hours per week.
If that is correct, you are entitled to 28 days (being 4.5 hour days) annual leave per year.  8 of these days will be used as Bank Holidays.  Still leaves 20 days (4.5 hour days) of annual leave to be taken as per the company policy for authorising leave.  
It seems as though you have used some of the 20 days as annual leave taken while on sickness absence.

The reference to part time worker having annual leave on a pro-rata basis would be an academic consideration in the case I have described above.
However, it is possible that a half-assessment of the pro-rata piece has been done.  Reduced your total number of "full days" annual leave on the basis that you only work part time (50%).  If that has been done, then each day (period of 4.5 hours work) taken needs to be counted as only half-day's annual leave.  It would work out to the same outcome - entitlement is 28 days * 0.5 = 14 days.  Every time you take a day annual leave, it is half day used.  So you get 14 * 2 = 28 half days.  Which is the same as 28 days when each day just happens to have fewer hours.

There is, of course, a big assumption in the above, that your 22.5 hours week is a regular (but shorter day) working pattern of five days per week.

Hope that helps.

(*) I assume England but other parts of UK have differing Bank Holidays.

Thank you for responding,yes I work 4.5hrs a day Monday to friday.
Over the weekend I've gone through my 10 months worth of wage slips.
Looks like 7 of the 10 days sick I had have been paid in my hours as if I was at work but does not say anything underneath about holiday pay.
 So I'm baffled,have I been paid annual leave?but yet they haven't put it down as that.
I don't see how being sick effects my holiday entitlement like I was told by them,if I'm sick,then I am sick.

How did the 10 days of sickness absence fall?
Were they 10 individual events if 1 day each?
Were they 10 days in one block?
Were they somewhere between the two extremes?

My reason for asking is to understand whether SSP (statutory sick pay) applied.

Also, what does your employment contract say about sick pay?

FlorayG

I'm not sure how you qualify for SSP but there's no way they should have put you down as holiday if you were sick unless you specifically asked them to. If you are sick you are sick that's not holiday. Someone somewhere is fudging the books so that they don't have t do the paperwork involved for SSP I would guess. What can you do about it? I don't know; That's going to depend on how decent your employer is

Undervalued

FlorayG said:

I'm not sure how you qualify for SSP but there's no way they should have put you down as holiday if you were sick unless you specifically asked them to. If you are sick you are sick that's not holiday. Someone somewhere is fudging the books so that they don't have t do the paperwork involved for SSP I would guess. What can you do about it? I don't know; That's going to depend on how decent your employer is

It is not uncommon for employers to offer to treat an employee, who either gets only SSP or no sick pay at all, as on holiday so that they at least get some money. They are not obliged to offer this, even if the employee requests it, but nothing prevents it. Remember too that no SSP is paid for the first three days.

I agree they should have asked but maybe it is their general policy, so employees are deemed to have agreed unless they say otherwise?

Teddy080522

FlorayG said:

I'm not sure how you qualify for SSP but there's no way they should have put you down as holiday if you were sick unless you specifically asked them to. If you are sick you are sick that's not holiday. Someone somewhere is fudging the books so that they don't have t do the paperwork involved for SSP I would guess. What can you do about it? I don't know; That's going to depend on how decent your employer is

With ssp you have to be sick more than 3 days from what I've been reading on Google,this has absolutely confused me for the last 10 days,since when I received my payslip
Some days I've been of sick,I've been paid the hours as if I was physically there working, but nothing if i refer back to my wage slips saying nothing about holiday for it,other sick days,my hours have been deducted,I really do not have a clue,but then how have I gone over my annual leave if it does not state on my wage slip,I'd been paid whilst off sick,or is this staring me blue in the face.