transfer Civil Service deps but different pension provider & can't transfer

asp746

Hi, i've transferred departments within the Civil Service and was told all my terms & conditions would be protected and that I'd be able to transfer my pension because I wasn't able to stay in the one I was currently in.   I find this absolutely bizarre - i've got 30 years pension and now have got to start.a new one from scratch at 56 years old!!   Ideally, I'd have liked to have stayed in the one I was in  GMPF but was told 'no' not possible BUT I could transfer to the ALPHA.  Now 2 months later i've been told that no, i can't transfer and I've not got to start a new one which i'll probably only have for 4 years as i'm hoping to retire at 60.  Employer contributions are exactly the same, I really can't get my head round why I can't just keep paying in and my pot accumulate, it will rise with the index but any suggestions at all?  Thanks

JoeCrystal

I am confused by your post, to be honest. Do you mean you were working on a job with access to the Local Government Pension Scheme? Then yes, it does make perfect sense that you would be expected to start the pension scheme aka Civil Service Pension Scheme. "Told" is not good enough, I am afraid. Do you have any written information relating to the pension provisions that help? 

As I understand from your post, you can no longer access the Local Government Pension Scheme but cannot be enrolled on the Civil Service Pension Scheme. Is that what you meant?

There are no "pots" with these schemes by the way. Just promise to pay your index-linked pension for life when you claim at the relevant age.

ewaste

GMPF is part of the LGPS with an accrual rate of 49ths whereas Alpha has an accrual rate of 43rds. I believe any transfer would have been under 'Club' rules.

Did they give a reason why you can't transfer? which scheme are they now offering you? 

Are you aware you have a Defined Benefit pension and what that actually means?

Emmia

Pretty much everyone in the CS has now moved to Alpha (unless they've gone for the partnership scheme, or were close to retirement when Alpha was introduced) my CS pension statements show both Alpha and Premium which was the scheme I started on, but my premium contributions weren't transferred to Alpha when I was moved over.

It's fine to start with alpha now, you'll just end up with a pension in two parts.

I think the normal alpha pension age though is your state pension age, so not sure if that will work with retirement at 60.

Which departments are you moving between? 

molerat

You would have to start the new scheme anyway if moving from LGPS to CSPS but you should be able to do a Club Transfer of the old pension into the new.  Did they give a reason why ?  When did you start this new job ?

hugheskevi

asp746 said:

Hi, i've transferred departments within the Civil Service and was told all my terms & conditions would be protected and that I'd be able to transfer my pension because I wasn't able to stay in the one I was currently in.   

When someone moves between Civil Service Departments their pension stays in the same place, it is not transferred. Rather, the employee moves employers, both of whom use the same pension provider and service in the pension is continuous. At no point would you leave the pension scheme during the transfer.

asp746 said:

Ideally, I'd have liked to have stayed in the one I was in  GMPF 

GMPF is not a Civil Service Department, nor is it part of the Civil Service pension arrangements.

asp746 said:

but was told 'no' not possible BUT I could transfer to the ALPHA.  Now 2 months later i've been told that no, i can't transfer 

You can transfer in an external pension within your first 12 months of Civil Service employment.

asp746 said:

Employer contributions are exactly the same

Although I cannot find the GMPF employer contribution rates for 2022/23, it is extremely unlikely that the GMPF has exactly the same tiered employer contribution rate stucture - with the same contribution tiers - as the Civil Service scheme.

asp746 said:

any suggestions at all?  

If your salary is higher in the Civil Service than it was in your Local Government job it is very likely that a transfer will be in your best interests. Submit an application to obtain a transfer quote, which will be under Club Transfer terms.

Emmia said:

Pretty much everyone in the CS has now moved to Alpha (unless they've gone for the partnership scheme, or were close to retirement when Alpha was introduced) 

Every member of the Defined Benefit schemes was moved to alpha for future accrual from 1 April 2022, to end the discrimination identified under the McCloud judgment.

Marcon

Employee contribution rates are certainly different:

https://www.gmpf.org.uk/members/joining/joining-contributions-and-transferring-in-benefits

https://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/your-pension/managing-your-pension/contribution-rates/

hyubh

asp746 said:

Hi, i've transferred departments within the Civil Service and was told all my terms & conditions would be protected and that I'd be able to transfer my pension because I wasn't able to stay in the one I was currently in.   I find this absolutely bizarre - i've got 30 years pension and now have got to start.a new one from scratch at 56 years old!!

An educated (?) guess - you are (or were) a probation service employee TUPE'd to the residual centralised body when localised services were privatised a few years back...?

If we were to run with that assumption... historically probation services were administered on a localised basis, rather than being part of central government. For employee pensions, this meant probation services participated in their local council's pension fund (LGPS), rather than the civil service pension scheme (PCSPS).

However, just under a decade ago, the Tory-led Coalition government privatised probation services, creating a residual public sector function under central government. At the same time, all probation service pension liabilities (pensioners, dependants, deferreds and actives) were bulk transferred into a single LGPS fund, GMPF.

Given how the LGPS works, if you were a probation officer in another LGPS fund previously, this meant little beyond a different pension scheme administrator, notwithstanding there was a fair bit of work 'under the bonnet'.

Ideally, I'd have liked to have stayed in the one I was in  GMPF but was told 'no' not possible BUT I could transfer to the ALPHA.  Now 2 months later i've been told that no, i can't transfer and I've not got to start a new one which i'll probably only have for 4 years as i'm hoping to retire at 60.

OK, so... you were moved in the civil service pension scheme over a year ago...? And at that point, standard transfer terms applied if you were interested in combining pensionable service...? (Transfers between public sector schemes involve 'Club' rules, one of which is that transfers must be done within the first year of joining the new scheme.)

The civil service and local government schemes are and were similar, though frankly, for many people the civil service schemes past and present have been slightly better. I think the main issue here is if you were not made properly aware you had been moved into the civil service scheme going forward, and once you were, the standard 12 month time limit on transfers of previous service was already passed. (Obviously it's better to have the option of transferring previous pension rights than not, regardless of whether such a transfer will typically be prudent or not.)

Employer contributions are exactly the same

That won't be the case given it's different schemes with different actuaries, however given both are 'defined benefit' (DB), employer contributions are immaterial to you.

I really can't get my head round why I can't just keep paying in and my pot accumulate

To be honest, if my assumption is correct, it wasn't obvious you'd stay in the pension scheme for local government employees back in 2015 when you no longer had a local authority employer...

asp746

molerat said:

You would have to start the new scheme anyway if moving from LGPS to CSPS but you should be able to do a Club Transfer of the old pension into the new.  Did they give a reason why ?  When did you start this new job ?

i started Oct 23 and they said it was because of the 12mth rule?   I'm not bothered or interested that they both have different rates because the difference is negligible.  My peeve is that the GMPF lumpsum was accumulating at about 5k pa (I know this because I did online forecasts) and now it's frozen and the new one's starting from zero and I don't think that it will make up what i'd have made had I stayed in GMPF - 

hyubh

asp746 said:

molerat said:

You would have to start the new scheme anyway if moving from LGPS to CSPS but you should be able to do a Club Transfer of the old pension into the new.  Did they give a reason why ?  When did you start this new job ?

i started Oct 23 and they said it was because of the 12mth rule?

Club rules require the transfer to be elected for within 12 months of joining the new scheme.

I'm not bothered or interested that they both have different rates because the difference is negligible.  My peeve is that the GMPF lumpsum was accumulating at about 5k pa (I know this because I did online forecasts) and now it's frozen and the new one's starting from zero and I don't think that it will make up what i'd have made had I stayed in GMPF -  

You haven't accrued more reckonable service to increase the lump sum since 2008. However you have had a final salary link for all your pre-April 2008 benefits. (Had your pay not kept up with inflation, this would have actually decreased the value of your lump sum in real terms.) Conversely when deferred, it increases by CPI along with the rest of your LGPS benefits.