'Losing' statutory bank holiday due to reduction of hours before full retirement

WYSPECIAL

katejo said:

I work for a university library. I am 60 and in the process of arranging to reduce my working week to 4 days instead of 5. I expected a 20% reduction in my personal leave allowance. I didn't expect an additional  20% reduction in my  paid bank holiday hours. . My workplace closes between Christmas and New Year. I am only entitled to 20% of the day as leave on Christmas Day and New Year's Day. This means that some hours will be deducted from the personal leave which I can take between September (when my reduced hours start) and the end of January (end of the leave year). Boxing Day isn't affected in 2023  because I am due to have Tuesday as my extra day off. In 2024 I will have a similar penalty over the Easter weekend and the May/August bank holidays.
For the period between now and January, I only lose about 3 hours but it will be more in 2024. Has anyone else had a similar experience? HR says that this is normal procedure and the fairest way to do it.

It is the fairest, and usual, way to do it as it means that a part timer will get the same as a full timer whenever there is a bank holiday, 20% of their working week as paid time off.

It also even up part timers that are contracted different days as the majority of bank holidays are on a Monday. Someone contracted to work Mon-Thurs would get more days off every year than someone contracted to work Tues-Fri if it wasn't calculated pro-rata.

SandyShores

It's normal practice now in all of the workplaces I'm aware of.  This is what the citizens advice website says:

If you work part-time

If your work shuts on bank holidays and you normally work on those days, you’ll have to take them as paid holiday. Because you work part-time, you’ll be entitled to fewer statutory holiday days each year than if you were full-time. This will leave you fewer holiday days to take at a time of your choice.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/holidays-and-holiday-pay/working-on-bank-holidays/#:~:text=If%20you%20work%20part%2Dtime,if%20you%20were%20full%2Dtime.

My employer has just changed the way the holiday allowance is given to us, and even if you are full-time they now give give us our total number of hours/days including bank holidays (pro-rata'd to your contracted hours) as a pot.  Everyone now has to book their bank holidays first and you're then free to book the remainder as normal leave.  

So many people are working flexibly now that it seems simpler to do it this way - it means that full-timers with compressed hours will be reminded to book the correct amount of leave for their bank holidays.  Previously if you worked compressed hours and normally worked on a Monday you either had to work extra hours that week or book additional leave on the bank holiday - if they didn't they got around 9 hours of leave on a bank holiday for 7.5 hours worth of leave taken.  Not a huge deal, but it could add up to an extra 2 days leave per year, so its fairer for all this way.

katejo

zagubov said:

If you don't work Mondays, you may be able to claim TOIL for bank holidays you missed.
This last academic year you may have missed four bank holiday Mondays (29/8/22 August bank holiday

19/9/22 National day of mourning,1/5/22 Early May bank holiday, 8/5/23 King Charles coronation).

As you're fractionally employed you may be able to claim three if you're 0.75 or two if you're 0.5 or more or one if you're 0.25 or over.

Most years you only get two term-time bank holiday Mondays (May and August) so if you're 0.5 you may get one.
individual companies and organisations may have their own rules you'd need to check.

Check with your union rep.

My reduced hours haven't started yet. It is only from Sept 1st but 20% of my bank holidays hours will be deducted from my personal leave hours for Dec 25th and Jan 1st. It won't happen for Dec 26th because my non working day will be Tuesday. 

katejo

marlot said:

I changed my hours a different way for my last couple of years - I did 5 days work over 4 days - so much longer days.

My contract changed to hours worked, which had the same effect as you (and others) are reporting.  When it was a bank holiday, I was only credited with 7.5 hours, not the 10 hours I routinely worked.

That doesn't sound right if you are doing the full 5 days work with longer hours over 4 days. My pay will have a 20% reduction which is expected. 

WYSPECIAL

katejo said:

marlot said:

I changed my hours a different way for my last couple of years - I did 5 days work over 4 days - so much longer days.

My contract changed to hours worked, which had the same effect as you (and others) are reporting.  When it was a bank holiday, I was only credited with 7.5 hours, not the 10 hours I routinely worked.

That doesn't sound right if you are doing the full 5 days work with longer hours over 4 days. My pay will have a 20% reduction which is expected. 

It would be right if everyone else was doing the same contract over five days as everyone would get the same total number of hours annual leave a year. You'd neither gain or lose because you were doing it over four days rather than five.

WYSPECIAL

My reduced hours haven't started yet. It is only from Sept 1st but 20% of my bank holidays hours will be deducted from my personal leave hours for Dec 25th and Jan 1st. It won't happen for Dec 26th because my non working day will be Tuesday. 

But you'll get 20% of your working week hours added to annual leave entitlement for it, same as a full timer.

katejo

WYSPECIAL said:

My reduced hours haven't started yet. It is only from Sept 1st but 20% of my bank holidays hours will be deducted from my personal leave hours for Dec 25th and Jan 1st. It won't happen for Dec 26th because my non working day will be Tuesday. 

But you'll get 20% of your working week hours added to annual leave entitlement for it, same as a full timer.

You just mean that a week of leave booked will only 'cost' 4 days deducted from my personal leave? I am aware of that. Or do you mean something else? 

michaels

It is so easy, full time you get say 33 days of paid leave (25 holiday plus 8 bank holiday) out of 260 total paid days (52 weeks x 5 days per week) = 12.7%

If you work fewer days, say 4 days a week you should get the same proportion of leave, 12.7% x 208 = 26.4 total days.

Any other way those who say worked Tues - Fri would be miles worse off than those who worked Mon-Thur - does that sound fair to anyone?!

WYSPECIAL

katejo said:

WYSPECIAL said:

My reduced hours haven't started yet. It is only from Sept 1st but 20% of my bank holidays hours will be deducted from my personal leave hours for Dec 25th and Jan 1st. It won't happen for Dec 26th because my non working day will be Tuesday. 

But you'll get 20% of your working week hours added to annual leave entitlement for it, same as a full timer.

You just mean that a week of leave booked will only 'cost' 4 days deducted from my personal leave? I am aware of that. Or do you mean something else? 

No, I mean that you will get the same compensation for the fact there is a bank holiday on Tuesday 26/12/2023 as someone who is contracted to work that day despite the fact that you are not. You'll both get hours equal to 20% of your working week added to your holiday entitlement but you will be able to "spend" them on another day.

Calculate annual leave and bank holiday entitlement in hours rather than days and it will be a lot clearer.

spaniel101

katejo said:

marlot said:

I changed my hours a different way for my last couple of years - I did 5 days work over 4 days - so much longer days.

My contract changed to hours worked, which had the same effect as you (and others) are reporting.  When it was a bank holiday, I was only credited with 7.5 hours, not the 10 hours I routinely worked.

That doesn't sound right if you are doing the full 5 days work with longer hours over 4 days. My pay will have a 20% reduction which is expected. 

As you would expect, NHS does it this way (annual leave pro-rata, bank holiday leave pro-rata).   

If I book a bank holiday day off, I book the applicable pro-rata bank holiday hours for that particular day (7.5 allowance) but if my day is usually longer, i.e. a Monday (10 hours), i am required to book an additional 2.5hrs annual leave to back it up  (or I could just make up 10 hours elsewhere).