Fares for London bus and tube passengers to jump by the biggest amount in a decade 14 February 2022 at 7:44PM in Public transport & cycling 10 replies 353 views

MSE_Sophie

Londoners who use the tube and bus will have to pay more, London Mayor Sadiq Khan has announced today. Single tube fares will rise by 10p in Zone 1 and between 10p and 30p across the rest of the underground network.

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Fares for London bus and tube passengers to jump by the biggest amount in a decade 

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giraffe69

Worth noting they didn't increase in 2017 18 19 20 and someone has to pay for, for example, the increased price of fuel.

molerat

Fares will increase in total by 4.8% across Transport for London (TfL), the biggest price rise in 10 years. It is the second time TfL controlled fares have increased since 2016, after Mr Khan froze prices between 2016 and 2021.

“We have been forced into this position by the Government and the way it continues to refuse to properly fund TfL, but I have done everything in my power to keep fares as affordable as possible.”

So a rise well below what the rest of the country have suffered over the past few years and fares will still be much lower than elsewhere in the country.

gt94sss2

While the prices of single journeys did not increase, it's misleading to claim that fares did not increase between 2016 and 2021.

The price of travelcards and the daily capping limit on fares increased every year.

TheAble

For all that it's a big % rise, the tube still represents excellent value imo. Off peak with a gold card discount I can travel almost 20 miles for a little over a quid.

gt94sss2

Very few people living in London qualify for a Gold Card discount though.

Also, while I don't think it has happened this time, apparently removing that discount was one of the options they considered

TheAble

Fair point. But even without the gold card it's still keenly priced. 

gt94sss2

TheAble said:

Fair point. But even without the gold card it's still keenly priced. 

You might think so. I disagree.

It has some of the most expensive fares in the world compared to similar services.

Many people also have to travel at peak periods of which the tube has 2 each weekday (morning and late afternoon)

jon81uk

gt94sss2 said:

TheAble said:

Fair point. But even without the gold card it's still keenly priced. 

You might think so. I disagree.

It has some of the most expensive fares in the world compared to similar services.

That's because almost all other urban transport networks in the world are subsidised from taxation. TfL is one of the only ones that isn't.

But compared to many other modes of transport in the UK travel within the London zones and on buses is well priced. Buses in particular are far cheaper than many other cities for a far better, regular service.

Andy_L

jon81uk said:

gt94sss2 said:

TheAble said:

Fair point. But even without the gold card it's still keenly priced. 

You might think so. I disagree.

It has some of the most expensive fares in the world compared to similar services.

That's because almost all other urban transport networks in the world are subsidised from taxation. TfL is one of the only ones that isn't.

But compared to many other modes of transport in the UK travel within the London zones and on buses is well priced. Buses in particular are far cheaper than many other cities for a far better, regular service.

"Grants (including Crossrail funding) make up 33% of our funding in 2019/20 and are received from central and local government. The main sources are:

Business Rates Retention, which is funded from a proportion of local business rates and paid to us from the GLA. Introduced in 2013/14, this replaces money previously paid to us by the DfT as investment grant

Other capital grants, principally for the Northern line extension. This is provided by the GLA and financed from incremental business rates generated and retained within a new enterprise zone, and developers' contributions, raised by Wandsworth and Lambeth boroughs

Funding from the GLA for Mayoral priorities which include a scheme to help scrap older vans for the Capital's microbusinesses and charities, and help low-income Londoners scrap older cars

GLA precept - this is funded from local Council Tax receipts and is set annually by the Mayor

Crossrail funding from the GLA which goes towards the project to build the infrastructure for the Elizabeth line. It is the responsibility of Crossrail Ltd, a wholly-owned subsidiary of ours. The project is jointly sponsored by us and the DfT"

https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work/how-we-are-funded

jon81uk

Andy_L said:

jon81uk said:

gt94sss2 said:

TheAble said:

Fair point. But even without the gold card it's still keenly priced. 

You might think so. I disagree.

It has some of the most expensive fares in the world compared to similar services.

That's because almost all other urban transport networks in the world are subsidised from taxation. TfL is one of the only ones that isn't.

But compared to many other modes of transport in the UK travel within the London zones and on buses is well priced. Buses in particular are far cheaper than many other cities for a far better, regular service.

"Grants (including Crossrail funding) make up 33% of our funding in 2019/20 and are received from central and local government. The main sources are:

Business Rates Retention, which is funded from a proportion of local business rates and paid to us from the GLA. Introduced in 2013/14, this replaces money previously paid to us by the DfT as investment grant

Other capital grants, principally for the Northern line extension. This is provided by the GLA and financed from incremental business rates generated and retained within a new enterprise zone, and developers' contributions, raised by Wandsworth and Lambeth boroughs

Funding from the GLA for Mayoral priorities which include a scheme to help scrap older vans for the Capital's microbusinesses and charities, and help low-income Londoners scrap older cars

GLA precept - this is funded from local Council Tax receipts and is set annually by the Mayor

Crossrail funding from the GLA which goes towards the project to build the infrastructure for the Elizabeth line. It is the responsibility of Crossrail Ltd, a wholly-owned subsidiary of ours. The project is jointly sponsored by us and the DfT"

https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work/how-we-are-funded

Sorry I should have been more specific and said central government funding. All your examples are from local government.
As noted in your first example TfL/GLA had to start using business rates when DfT stopped grants. 

TfL is one of the only urban transportation networks in the world that does not running costs funding from central government taxation.
The capital expenditure on Crossrail is for the new infrastructure not day-to-day.