It's time to begin.....

Kakiste

Buses are great during the day but I work in a little village and there's only one service that runs past the school and that wouldn't get me here on time. It's not a massive issue- 5 of my colleagues live in the same town as me so it's just a case of asking and jumping in. 

@Sarahwithlove No it's not fair really. He wouldn't consider a more equal split though as he sees it as I created the problem by not talking to him. He doesn't really spend any of his extra money- he tends to hoard it as he's always paranoid that something else will go wrong (So whilst he was self-employed a few years back he once saved up something like £5000 for his taxes even though the most his taxes had ever been before was £1800) He's currently got £3500 in his account and is talking about paying his parents back the other £5000 on payday as I've got the other £1500 saved towards that. I know that if we pay them off then it'll be a few weeks of bitter remarks and complaining about how he's "doing the lion's share again" but quite frankly, it'll be nice to get another debt cleared and I can then increase the amount of money I put towards repaying my dad each month and have that cleared by the end of Spring so I think it's worth it. 

greensalad

I think I said it before but I agree with Sarah, I feel like you're being made to feel like the bad person in this whilst you're trying your hardest. I understand you're OK with the way it's working but I do think if you ever wanted to you'd be more than entitled to bring it up with him. I'm not married (but ten years in a relationship) and I sort of thought that was the point of getting married; to be a unit rather than two separate entities and to be able to support and uplift each other. 

enthusiasticsaver

I also think Sarah makes a good point in that the debt was built up jointly so letting your husband help pay it back is only right even if in his mind he feels it is solely you who was responsible.  How did he think you were continuing to pay for things on SMP? 

Kakiste

He didn't really. He admits that he didn't even realise that SMP was so low (Even though I had made it clear to him that I was being paid a significant amount less- he claims I didn't) At the time, whilst on maternity leave he wouldn't acknowledge it and kept saying that if I was short then I should be doing extra sewing to make up the extra money- when I asked him for extra money he used to rant at me about how he was having to go to work so I could "sit at home" (which didn't really make sense as his working/not working didn't facilitate my maternity leave as he paid nothing extra during the months I was off. ) and then repeatedly brought up how bad I was with money in front of mutual friends or work colleagues, attempting to get them to mock me. (One of them was the lovely friend who sympathized and told me in private his own previous debt about DMPs and Stepchange and whilst I didn't have my LBM at the time, he planted the seed)

He's got diagnosed depression and anxiety (as well as BPD and PTSD) and will have low moods a lot- (he's in one at the minute) where he doesn't do anything; he just lies in bed talking about how he wants to kill himself and everything is hopeless. I've tried getting him NHS referrals but he won't speak to anyone about it or take any medication so it just goes on and on. The low moods are worse at the minute because he has something tangible (the debt) to hold onto whereas in the past it's been really weird stuff that's set it off and been relatively easy to buoy him up. 

I'm sympathetic to the depression and the anxiety and whilst I've never had either I acknowledge that it's not something that he's choosing. However he is choosing not to get help with it and that is frustrating to deal with. At the moment life is a lot better because he isn't taking it out on me anywhere as near as much as he used to. (He used to be really, really nasty with it) so it's mostly now characterized by moping and him not doing housework or any parenting. He's briefly tried a stint of convincing me that I've got MH problems (I haven't) and over the last few days it's been that he thinks that I'm a sociopath. He's previously repeatedly insisted that I'm autistic (I taught ASD kids for a decade so am well versed in all the markers and whatnot and I'm absolutely not but he wouldn't acknowledge my experience in the area trumped his.) Yesterday I just shut the conversation down and basically said the fact that he keeps insisting that I have MH issues despite the fact I don't is just a flagrant play of messing with my head and I wasn't prepared to listen to it. So he's dropped it. (He's reasoning for the sociopathy claim was that I'm not upset enough about how I got into debt and what I did to him and therefore must be a sociopath and that a 'normal' person would be groveling and hugely upset everyday trying to make it up to him- I was upset and I do regret it but equally I've picked myself up and am trying to make the best of everything and sort out a stable future and I don't feel wallowing in what happened more than 2 years ago would be helpful to anyone. I think that is a fairly normal emotional reaction but hey ho.)

I've said it before but ultimately I'm seeing it as we're on a bit of a countdown. Once I'm debt free it will be interesting to see how he thinks the finances should be split (as I earn nearly double his salary) But he keeps saying that he can't forgive me for what I did and unless he suddenly gets over this I don't think our relationship will last for many more years. (Been together nearly 15 years) However I'm trying to use the time at the moment to pay off debt (As previously said I'd rather be a single debt free parent with 34k income than a single parent paying back £19k of debt) and try my best to make everything workable. If we get to my DFD and he's still the same then I think I'm going to call time on it as currently my home life is sustainable and treading water but not really enjoyable. 

Sarahwithlove

I think by sounds of it that could be for the best if its not working out for you both. It doesn't sound like a particularly healthy relationship for you and if he's not willing to make changes you cant be expected to do it all. If he is willing to save up money and then pay off a large sum of the debt then let him do it I would say. He might not be willing to acknowledge his role in it but nothing saying you can't acknowledge it through accepting the help to clear it. Good luck and we are all here if you need someone to talk to or rant at. 

greensalad

I just want to say I really feel for you. I honestly don't even think you should feel guilty or upset or regretful over the debt you got into, IMO. You have said before the spending was for your children mainly. If you've gone out and bought lavish clothes and cars and whatnot with it then that's different. But it sounds like you did it for your children's sake whilst trying to maintain the same lifestyle you had with no support from your spouse. 

I know you mentioned therapy before, but would it be worth going again just you on your own? You could even look at doing something remote like telephone counselling. I really think his gaslighting you about your own mental health is awful but I also worry that it continuing could start to hurt you whereas at the moment you are brushing it off. 

Hope I am not speaking out of turn here, I just feel awful for you and I don't think you deserve any of the treatment you are getting.

Kakiste

I have been to individual counselling before and I did find it really helpful. After a few sessions (I had 8 in total) she recommended Lundy Bancroft's book "why does he do that?" and it was eye opening. The first session I had I think I was still very much in the fog, thinking it was all my fault and I was a terrible person but she helped me to see what was going on.

Ultimately I stopped going to counselling because one day he said that she was clearly not being tough enough on me and making me examine why I had done such terrible things and I tried to explain that she had said that by his behaviour it sounded like I'd been backed into a corner where I felt like the only two choices I had were to take money that wasn't mine or to admit to friends and family how bad everything was with him and whilst it wasn't the greatest choice she could see why I made it. (This did NOT go down well)
After that I went to two sessions and he referred to the woman 'enabling' me and then said that she wasn't a proper psychologist anyway so what did she know. It then started to take over the week that on a Saturday he would be in a terrible mood that I was going on the Sunday morning and then on the Sunday, Monday, Tuesday he'd still not be speaking to me. So I stopped going- but I got what I needed from it. 

At the moment I'm doing the whole 'grey rock' method and it's sustainable. I'll apologise whenever the conversation goes to "How could you do this to me?" and then steer it around to future planning and sympathise whenever he talks about how bad he feels generally but I'm not being drawn down the circular conversational route about how awful I am because it just goes nowhere other than criticizing me. (I acknowledge that this sounds like I can't take criticism- I can if it's constructive- but it's incredibly one sided. Last time we had a big drawn out conversation a few weeks ago I explained for probably the 20th time that he had been so verbally aggressive towards me during maternity leave; slamming round really aggressively and breaking stuff (punching doors, headbutting walls, punching the microwave) that I was scared to tell him about how much personal debt I was in. He completely dismissed that and said that if I was "apparently" so scared of him then I would never have stolen from him. So he gets to make massive sweeping statements about me and my behaviour that aren't true but won't actually listen or acknowledge when I say how I actually felt so it's a non-productive conversation and just used as a stick to beat me with- which i've said and refused to engage with the conversation if it's clearly just more of the same. 

He's changed a lot of the above behaviour as I reached the end of my tether with being treated that way last year. I felt very vulnerable whilst on maternity leave and I think allowed a creep in aggressive verbal behaviour where it went from 'he got a bit angry in arguments' pre-pregnancy to 'he was swearing at me and headbutting walls if we disagreed.' He used to threaten to leave frequently as it upset me and last year I had a bit of a snapping moment and called his bluff and told him that if it was so bad and he hated being with me so much then he should leave. (He then immediately backpaddled and claimed that he'd never said anything of the sort) I then followed it down and said that all of the above behaviour shouldn't have ever happened and he was horrible for going there but I wasn't putting up with it any more and the next time he did anything in that area I'd be taking our daughter and moving out and he hasn't done anything like that since.  

Honeysucklelou2

 Kakiste - I’m sorry to read that you have had to go through such an experience. I do sympathise...I’ve had similar experiences which is why my ex is an ex. I remember it was hard going on a daily basis. Have  you got support around you - friends, family, colleagues?

astrocytic_kitten

I just wanted to pop in and say you’re so strong Kakiste. I will be cheering you on for your debt freedom to come very, very quickly. His behaviour sounds pretty unforgivable.

Sarahwithlove

I think he needs to find a way to move past it or you'll have to end things. How long do you think it will be before you will have it cleared enough that you could manage on your own financially? It really doesn't sound like a very healthy relationship to be in and as someone whose parents stayed together purely for us kids I would highly recommend against it. Better to have two loving parents that are happy and serrated than miserable together.