7.3 kW Bi Facial Rooftop Panels: ~7 year ROI: Fact OR fiction?

arty688

Also Solaredge manufacture stuff in China , I'm not sure its as simple as China make bad stuff everywhere else makes good stuff. I do think though there is a more ethical argument about reducing the stuff we buy that's made in China.

Screwdriva

arty688 said:

Also Solaredge manufacture stuff in China , I'm not sure its as simple as China make bad stuff everywhere else makes good stuff. I do think though there is a more ethical argument about reducing the stuff we buy that's made in China.

It's increasingly difficult to purchase anything that isn't "Made in China" to your point. That said, it is still remarkably easy to avoid "Owned by China" and fortunately, solar panels are definitely one such example.  Think MG Motors, Huawei, Xiaomi, Jinko Solar, JA Solar, Trina Solar, Suntech Power etc. All Chinese owned companies with far superior alternatives available. 

Now to your point about Chinese quality. Can you think of a single Chinese owned brand's product that has lasted beyond its 3+ year warranty period without quality issues? I cannot (and I have really tried to share one). Panels are relatively simple with no moving parts - and yet, ethics aside, I continue to lack the confidence to purchase Chinese. 

QrizB

Screwdriva said:

Can you think of a single Chinese owned brand's product that has lasted beyond its 3+ year warranty period without quality issues?

I've had good experiences with Motorola cellphones and Lenovo laptops. Both Chinese brands.

ABrass

QrizB said:

Screwdriva said:

Can you think of a single Chinese owned brand's product that has lasted beyond its 3+ year warranty period without quality issues?

I've had good experiences with Motorola cellphones and Lenovo laptops. Both Chinese brands.

iPhones are made in China. Taiwan, but it still says China on the label.

arty688

'with far superior alternatives available.'

at the same price point ?

MG vs Tesla is that an example of a far superior alternative ?

I've had no problems with my Hisense TV either or my Tesco Chinese petrol £50 lawn mower refuses to die. If fact I'm struggling to think of something Chinese that I own that has broke? Now British stuff I've had a few problems with .

Having said that it also means I haven't tested the after sale service which has been good on the British stuff that's let me down.

From all my trawling of the net it seems that panels are pretty reliable in general and LG make great panels and are a good choice its just if payback is your top priority premium panels don't increase your generation enough to cover the extra cost.

I'm no fan of the Chinese state and have been trying to avoid Chinese own companies of late just not on quality issues.

2nd_time_buyer

"Can you think of a single Chinese owned brand's product that has lasted beyond its 3+ year warranty period without quality issues?"

This is considered good business these days. People have an expectation that products last a certain time these days e.g. 

2-3 years for phones
3-5 years for laptops
5-7 years for TVs and washing machines etc.
10-15 year for car

People consider it acceptable if it lasts that long with no issues. If it lasts longer than often it received little credit as there are new "superior" products available.

Personally, for environmental reasons, I would like to see all the design life's above doubled even if it made the products twice as expensive (which it wouldn't).   

Miele was an example of this philosophy. They still might be but I guess I won't find out for 10 years.  

arty688

For consumer electronics its usually obsolescence that will happen before breakdown which you could argue we should slow the pace of innovation down but would be on this forum if we had decided 20 years ago to make it a requirement phones and computers last at least 20 years ?

People do change too often though used and reparability should be higher in peoples minds.
For example I personally have just retired my 7 year old laptop as it was becoming unusable for web browsing and shopping and replaced it with a £70 second hand (ironically Lenovo) and changed the hard drive to SSD and we are good for another few years. I also purchased an ex business desktop(Lenovo again) for my son to do homework and light gaming on for £100 plus a graphics card at £100 . 

2nd_time_buyer

arty688 said:

For consumer electronics its usually obsolescence that will happen before breakdown which you could argue we should slow the pace of innovation down but would be on this forum if we had decided 20 years ago to make it a requirement phones and computers last at least 20 years ?

People do change too often though used and reparability should be higher in peoples minds.
For example I personally have just retired my 7 year old laptop as it was becoming unusable for web browsing and shopping and replaced it with a £70 second hand (ironically Lenovo) and changed the hard drive to SSD and we are good for another few years. I also purchased an ex business desktop(Lenovo again) for my son to do homework and light gaming on for £100 plus a graphics card at £100 . 

Part of the reason is that new things can be very (too) cheap.

When you look at cars. VW are less reliable than many other brands. However, they hold their value well, meaning it is economical to repair them beyond other brands. This gives the perception they are well made and built to last as there are more older example on the road, thus perpetuating the myth of superiority.

The VW camper is an example of this taken to the extreme.

mickyduck55

I am too scared to comment on this forum about the reliability of my 17 10 year old Chinese panels for fear of jinxing them... Oh S**t I have just done it....... 

arty688

Using the VW thing as an example , I got rid of a 15 year old Golf about 2 years ago (120000 miles), there was no doubt that is was far better made materials wise than some other cars I have owned an example would be when I had to replace the door window mechanism . taking the door apart was a nightmare . My neighbor was a mechanic at a rover garage and he came to help and told me if this was a rover it would have be held on by a couple of flimsy clips however VW's and he said Toyotas are a different story. This of course doesn't make them any more reliable and I have no idea if this is still the case my guess is VW have come down in quality and other manufacturers have upped their game.

I also have a new ish Suzuki Vitara which seem very flimsy and they seem to pay no attention to the modern day obsession we have with a car having to have a nice clunk when you close the door which i guess is a western thing not a Japanese thing . However I do expect the Suzuki to be far more reliable than the VW was.