Labour's Manifesto - The Nordic Model.

MobileSaver

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Who mentioned drugs?

You responded to GreatApe's "addictions" comment; I would be very surprised if he wasn't referring to mainly drink and drugs, wouldn't you?

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Drugs are very much the recreational choice of the liberal affluent middle class.

I think you missed out the phrase "some of" there but regardless what difference does that make? I don't care whether someone who made bad choices is rich or poor.

You chose not to respond to the opt-in tithe system, so I guess you would only support a caring society if someone else pays for it?

Thrugelmir

GreatApe wrote: »

If you want the votes and support of the right you're going to have to stop using nonsense sentences like this which mean nothing to people on the right. start explaining what the problem is and how you will deal with it and why all the others that have tried to address the problems in similar ways and failed but you won't

Seriously all you just said is 'lets be more caring'
There is a big fundamental difference between the right and the left
For the left it's good enough to say 'lets just be more caring' and your side all nod in agreement
While the right says '!!!!!! does that mean, give me ideas and ways to implement them not sound bites'

Can you not think of things for yourself? Life isn't that complex if one isn't selfish.

GreatApe

MobileSaver wrote: »

Of course, very few of us go through life without tragedies or issues at some point however the vast majority of us don't deal with such things by taking illegal drugs.

I for one don't have much sympathy for those that do become addicted to drugs and in particular don't want my taxes to increase in order to help people who made bad decisions in life.

Perhaps you would like to campaign for an opt-in tithe system? The likes of you and Arklight could voluntarily pay an extra 10% of your tax bill specifically to help the criminals, druggies and alcoholics. You get to feel good and ne'er-do-wells get support, sounds like a win/win to me or do you only want a more caring society if someone else pays for it?

Those with dysfunctional lives and addictions should be helped the problem is there isn't a full solution. The system is good enough to keep 19,999 / 20,000 people off the street

The other 1 in 20,000 are almost impossible to help we can and should try but you can't score the merits of free market capatilism on if this 1 in 20,000 figure falls or rises

borkid

Thrugelmir wrote: »

It's called life. Anybody can suddenly be faced with an unexpected challenge. A more caring community based equitable society would be of great assistance. Doesn't require extreme socialist views either to implement. Just ordinary people living their daily lives in a different manner.

But is it? OK there are some who are ill through no fault of their own ie lifestyle choices but there are others who make lifestyle choices that cause problems. I know quite a few of the latter and a couple of the former.

Cakeguts

I just want to point out that quite a lot of problems start in childhood. The problem with dysfunctional families is that someone growing up in one can be affected for the whole of the rest of their life. Social services and children's charities don't help a lot of children because they don't recognise that the children are being abused.



The children who are being abused in families where no one knows what is going on often self medicate. You have to understand that living in an abusive family is hell. Most people don't realise that there are parents who hate their children. There are mothers who hate their children.



Self medication often includes illegal drugs.

GreatApe

Cakeguts wrote: »

I just want to point out that quite a lot of problems start in childhood. The problem with dysfunctional families is that someone growing up in one can be affected for the whole of the rest of their life. Social services and children's charities don't help a lot of children because they don't recognise that the children are being abused.

The children who are being abused in families where no one knows what is going on often self medicate. You have to understand that living in an abusive family is hell. Most people don't realise that there are parents who hate their children. There are mothers who hate their children.

Self medication often includes illegal drugs.

True but is foster or state care available in larger quantities and is it better?

Sometimes there are no good easy solutions or they would be done

My hat off to any lefty who adopts a kid and gives it a good life but that's actually doing something above making a non sensical argument of 'we should be kinder'


Anyway I'll say once again things are pretty good
Not perfect but they never will be
So long as we are human we will suffer some of the time
It's not the economic system or what the percentage of tax rate is

Malthusian

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Can you not think of things for yourself?

Left: Let's just be more caring. [lefties all nod in agreement]

Right: !!!!!! does that mean, give me ideas and ways to implement them not sound bites.

Left: No, you think of ideas for yourself. We've done our job by caring about the issue, now it's your job to come up with ideas.

Right: Saying something is bad but refusing to think about how it can be made better doesn't accomplish anything. It's just whinging. Most people grow out of it in childhood as the brain becomes strong enough to look for solutions to problems beyond "scream until your parents do something". If you are a compos mentis adult and you're hungry it's your job to get food. If you say you want to see homelessness reduced then it's your job to propose ideas that will reduce homelessness.

Left: Have you seen what happens when we come up with ideas and ways to implement them ourselves? Venezuela, North Korea, USSR, the Winter of Discontent, the 90% tax trap on UK low earners? Any of these ringing a bell?

Right: Um, good point.