Morally right or wrong, my head can't compute

zenshi

I'm in the process of CCAing some very old cards and struggling with my head, which is silly

I have no issue with people going bankrupt and wiping debts
I have no issue with those on DRO or IVA or the like and wiping debts
I have no issue with offering partial offers as settlement and wiping debts


Why then do I have an issue as to wether to offer a small settlement or just notpay a debt if it's uneforcable in the court (just to note, I haven't had replies yet, just pondering)

What are your thoughts

frenchplonka

TBH the way I have thought of it is if there are defaults on your file they are there for 6 years so your credit file is ruined paying the (unenforceable) debts achieves nothing but well a clear slate from a DCA point of view BUT if there barred why pay u need to weigh up the pro and cons.

Pro: You feel good inside paying of a debt you owe and in six years time your history will be all shiny.

Cons: You offer partial settlements or refuse to pay so it appears as partial settled or still in arrears for 6 years still affects your credit until they drop off.

IMHO if your credit is already damaged badly playing the system is the way to go because you dont gain anything short term but im a selfish person so others may not agree....

sourcrates

No issues with it whatsoever.

It is written into the consumer credit act, we cannot pick and choose which areas of consumer law we abide by, and which we don't, it applies just as much to the creditor, as it does the debtor.

On the face of it, it's a simple enough task to produce a copy of a credit agreement, in this digital age, and yet some creditors even fail on recent agreements.

The consumer credit act 1974, is a very large piece of legislation, with many amendments, there are various sections of it, where the non compliance of a creditor, can lead to an agreement been deemed unenforcable, not just non compliance with a CCA request.

Puddylove

Personally, if I knew I owed the money and I could pay it, I would.

To me it's about honouring your word, and being honest.

I do have every sympathy for those who are unable to pay due to illness, injury or caring for others, though, and think there should be more help for them.

Otherwise, if it's your debt, pay it.

andyfromotley

Nope no problem,

They are commercial money lenders who are required to abide by the law. They couldnt be bothered/were too incompetent to do so. The law says they lose their right to enforce their debts.
This rule of law and the sanctions within ensure both sides stick to the rules.

Mojisola

zenshi wrote: »

I'm in the process of CCAing some very old cards and struggling with my head, which is silly

I have no issue with people going bankrupt and wiping debts
I have no issue with those on DRO or IVA or the like and wiping debts
I have no issue with offering partial offers as settlement and wiping debts

Why then do I have an issue as to wether to offer a small settlement or just notpay a debt if it's uneforcable in the court (just to note, I haven't had replies yet, just pondering)

What are your thoughts

If you've ever been on the other side and lost out because a debtor was able to get away without paying their debt, you'd always repay what you owe.

rizla_king

no probs at all

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2001/633.html

"In effect, the creditor – by failing to ensure that he obtained a document signed by the debtor which contained all the prescribed terms – must (in the light of the provisions in sections 65(1) and 127(3) of the 1974 Act) be taken to have made a voluntary disposition, or gift, of the loan monies to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the monies in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid"

zenshi

Mojisola wrote: »

If you've ever been on the other side and lost out because a debtor was able to get away without paying their debt, you'd always repay what you owe.

I have of sorts and I just had to suck it up!


My car had several thousands of damage done to it on a rough ferry crossing due to staff not securing it properly. I put in a claim but the ferry (can't remember which one) went into receivership and I was way down the list of priority people. In the end, I got £16

Did the CEO feel bad?! I bet not!

So, I guess I'm leaning more towards being OK about as someone may not have done their job properly

Karonher

Morally wrong but not legally.

If you have spent the money why should you not pay it back?

If you are struggling it can be done at a much-reduced rate.

I have always paid back what I owed yet have in the past carried out work I have not been paid for. Sometimes when paying back I had to go without things I wanted and when not paid had to borrow from family. Obviously, I paid it back. As it has been online and both parties were in other countries there was nothing I could do about it. That doesn't mean I will not pay back any future money I may owe.

It amazes me that people always bring in the top bankers and company CEOs as if their salary/bonus makes not paying back right. They are not the ones that suffer when banks/companies lose money, it is the general workers - people like most of us on this board.

fusionx212

the way i see it is that the large creditors are primarily sharks. just because they wear a suit and have an office does not make any difference.

people's situations and circumstances change everyday. people lose jobs, loved ones pass away. like it or not these things have massive impacts on peoples ability to pay.

a large creditors bottom line is always the benefit they will gain from your situation. I agree if you borrow it pay it back. I have clawed my self out of debt just recently, I have dealt with many of these types.. there is a difference of course if compared to small companies and services in which you fail to pay back this does effect these people massively I would always rather use a smaller business. big business only benefits a few people at the top of the chain.

Iwanttobefree

Depends in my opinion.

If the debt has been sold to a debt collector then I would have zero moral conscience paying them as little as possible.

If the company had lent me money and I got into financial difficulties, providing I could see light at the end of the tunnel (am able to work again etc) then I would do my best to pay them back.

If it was a personal friend etc, I would pay them back in full, even if it took a few years.

However things aren't as straight forward as that.

If a company knows I've become ill and still hassles me day and night, causes me no end of stress even though I'm paying back what I can, there comes a point when I will think sod it, you are making a bad situation and my health a lot worse, and in those situations when I have the available funds, I will make a final offer as low as I can get them to accept and feel completely justified.

If I say had 5 credit cards and my credit history showed within months of getting each one, I was maxed out and only managed minimal payments, and a company then let me get another card, I would consider that irresponsible lending, and while I might be the one that applied for it, it's pretty obvious to a 4 year old that i cant manage my current debts and shouldn't be given any more.

And if the company giving me another credit card is one I already have maxed out cards for and already only manage minimum payments for, even more so.

I had severe chronic fatigue and was really depressed for about 15 years, during my depression I would apply for credit with no real way of paying it back (usually in my wifes name but some gave me cards even though I said I wasn't working) and they just kept dropping through my door with 5K etc limits, all from a few clicks of a mouse.

Yes I spent the money (the last few cards on things like food after all my spare money gone on the other cards) , but if I came on here and said I lent a stranger 5K even though he was 20K in debt and has't reduced his debt in 5 years and I then complained he couldn't pay me back, 99% of people would say its my own stupid fault.

I know I borrowed the money I owe, I also know I wasn't in a fit state of mind when I did so and if there were more stringent checks done by these companies I could have been protected from myself. I should never ever ever be allowed any credit ever.

But even with my first DMP I got offered a means of credit by the DMP company to get essential goods?????????????

I now owe 30K, am currently unable to work, every year I have to write to the FSA to complain about creditors in order to get interest reduced to an acceptable amount (this is the first year they all froze it). with my wifes earnings, to pay off at the current rate we will be around 85 years old (34 years) until it's gone and even paying off the small amount we are paying now, I owe a relative 4K where they've lent us the money when we didn't have enough for mortgage or car repairs etc.

I look at my situation and feel hopeless, I look at others on here and my situation by comparison is nothing.

And in most cases if the companies had just said NO when it's obvious we cant handle credit, we wouldn't be in this situation. In society we are protected and wrapped up in cotton gloves by this nanny state all over the place except in things like this where it's really needed.

My wife is self employed and needs her car, clutch is going and we think head gaskets going, cost us £1300 4 years ago, cant afford to fix car, cant afford another 2nd hand car, haven't bought any clothes for 2 years, oh well, with a bit of luck the stress of all this will send us to an early grave and we can rest in peace.