Clearing an Interim Charging Order from deceased's estate

MoneyShavingExpats

Hi everyone, if anyone out there can help me I'd be eternally grateful.

My father passed away unexpectedly late last year. I'm executor of his will and the sale of his house is nearing the final stages, but my conveyancing solicitor has just notified me that there is an Interim Charging Order against the property - this was a shock as I know my dad had previously struggled with debts but he genuinely believed he'd paid them all off years ago - including mortgage, credit cards, personal loans and money from friends/family - when he retired and got his 'lump sum'.

I've unearthed a few details after speaking to the court:

• A CCJ was applied for and granted in 2007;
• an Interim Charging Order was also granted, but no Final order was ever applied for.
• The solicitors that filed the request for an order no longer exist, they have since merged with another solicitors;
• The court, cryptically, have a note on file that they received a letter from the solicitor's in 2008 saying the matter was resolved and the application was withdrawn - however the charge still remains;
• The creditor who was seeking to get the debt repaid has since resold the debt to another company. I've tracked them down and they are checking their records to see what information they hold.

What are my options?

I believe I not only should, but must in my duty as executor:

• Confirm the CCJ was filed correctly
• Confirm the details of the CCJ /& Charging order
• Consider whether the CCJ can be dismissed (although being >6 years old has it already effectively been 'dismissed'?
• Get a copy of the details of the charge from the Land Registry
• Ask for a copy of the credit agreement (not sure what proper prcess is here, advice welcomed) and check that all the 'i's were dotted and the 't's crossed etc
• ask for copies of all statements sent to my father
• ask for proof of the debt??

Questions running through my mind are (help welcomed!):

• I've read that if you can get a CCJ dismissed, then any associated charging order is also overturnded/removed. If the CCJ has 'expired' (>6 years old) does the same apply? Can I just ask that the charge be removed?
• If the creditor/current owner of the debt's paper trail is lacking, does that help me in any way?
• Does the fact this is only an interim order help in any way? I'm assuming that, unless for some reason it's expired or otherwise voided, it still needs to be paid before thehouse can be sold?
• Does the fact the solcitor and original creditor no longer exist mean anything?
• The fact the creditor has resold the debt - does that change anything?

Many, many, thanks in advance knowledgeable people.

MoneyShavingExpats

One thing I forgot to mention, as the debt is more than 6 years old and there won't have been any correspondence from my late fther acknowledging any of this in that period, does that change anything - is the debt unenforceable, or does the charging order change that?

I'm not actually aware when the debt was taken out, or what it was, yet (credit card, loan, whatever), just the date of the court hearing for the CCJ.

National_Debtline

MoneyShavingExpats wrote: »

Questions running through my mind are (help welcomed!):

• I've read that if you can get a CCJ dismissed, then any associated charging order is also overturnded/removed. If the CCJ has 'expired' (>6 years old) does the same apply? Can I just ask that the charge be removed?
• If the creditor/current owner of the debt's paper trail is lacking, does that help me in any way?
• Does the fact this is only an interim order help in any way? I'm assuming that, unless for some reason it's expired or otherwise voided, it still needs to be paid before thehouse can be sold?
• Does the fact the solcitor and original creditor no longer exist mean anything?
• The fact the creditor has resold the debt - does that change anything?

Many, many, thanks in advance knowledgeable people.

Hi there

Bit of an awkward one, this. I can answer a few of your queries at least to begin with:

MoneyShavingExpats wrote: »

Does the fact the solcitor and original creditor no longer exist mean anything? Strictly speaking, NO. If someone else has legitimately acquired the "debt", they have also acquired the right to pursue and recover it through the same channels.
The fact the creditor has resold the debt - does that change anything? No - see above answer.
I've read that if you can get a CCJ dismissed, then any associated charging order is also overturned/removed. If the CCJ has 'expired' (>6 years old) does the same apply? Can I just ask that the charge be removed? The age of the CCJ isn't in itself a ground for having it dismissed or "set aside". It does, however, mean that any attempts by the creditor to enforce it now would require the permission of the court, and the creditor would be expected to show good reason for the delay in acting. This is a separate matter from determining whether the original debt and CCJ were valid at the time of the claim.
If the creditor/current owner of the debt's paper trail is lacking, does that help me in any way? Not necessarily. Lack of paper trail would have been more useful to you/your father at the original claim stage before the CCJ was actually granted - it might have dissuaded the creditor from suing at all, or given your father some grounds for disputing the claim in court.

There is a Land Registry representative account who sometimes pops up on this forum - he/she may have some useful input as to how this interim charge might be removed from their records.

I guess that for now you need to wait and see what information the creditor can dig out from their records in response to your request, before proceeding.

Regards

Dennis
Twitter: @natdebtline

MoneyShavingExpats

Thanks Dennis / NationalDebtLine, your guidance and clarification is incredibly helpful.

I've contacted the courts again this morning and been told a FINAL order was actually granted, in May 2007, but that they have on file a letter they received from the creditor's solicitor in September 2008 saying the debt was paid, and they were withdrawing their claim.

The courts are going to issue me with a "Certificate of Satisfaction" (for a £15 charge) which I then send to the Land Registry who say they will remove the charge immediately upon receipt.

I think and hope it's that simple. Time will tell!

Any further advice is still welcomed and appreciated though!

Land_Registry

Sounds like you have already contacted us and presumably you know how to apply for the entry to be removed.
If not then post again with details of how the ICO has been registered

MoneyShavingExpats

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

Sounds like you have already contacted us and presumably you know how to apply for the entry to be removed.
If not then post again with details of how the ICO has been registered

I've been told to complete a CN1 form, and send that with the certificate of satisfaction (when I have it) to you guys at the Land Registry.

I've looked at the CN1 form and it's not the most accessible wording, so if you have any advice on which bits to fill in I'd appreciate it (In the meantime I'll search to see if there is a help sheet to guide me).

I'm also not sure if there is a fee, but I have noticed an address I'm meant to check - will do that later but if you know and can advise me, so that I don't have to interpret what's what and risk getting it wrong and delaying proceedings - it would be very much appreciated. TIA

Land_Registry

No notes to help you I'm afraid but panels 1 to 7 (inc) plus 11 and 12 of form CN1 will be required and are fairly self -explanatory I hope.

No fee and the application should be sent to Citizen Centre, Land Registry Tŷ Cwm Tawe, Phoenix Way, Llansamlet, Swansea SA7 9FQ

MoneyShavingExpats

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

No notes to help you I'm afraid but panels 1 to 7 (inc) plus 11 and 12 of form CN1 will be required and are fairly self -explanatory I hope.

No fee and the application should be sent to Citizen Centre, Land Registry Tŷ Cwm Tawe, Phoenix Way, Llansamlet, Swansea SA7 9FQ

Many thanks, that's perfect - I'm confident I can sort it all out now.

MoneyShavingExpats

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

...the application should be sent to Citizen Centre, Land Registry Tŷ Cwm Tawe, Phoenix Way, Llansamlet, Swansea SA7 9FQ

Just checking, the property isn't in Wales, it's in South Yorkshire - does that affect the address I should send the form?

The Land Registry website isn't very helpful on this specific question, whilst Wikipedia (the font of ALL knowledge...) suggests the Cardiff office "covers all of Wales".

MoneyShavingExpats

It's ok, all sorted now - I called and spoke to LR who said "if you're not sending the paperwork via a solicitor, please send it to..." <the address you gave above>