The First Minister's behaviour

GlynD

emmett123 wrote: »

i think that nationalist would say that there was a cold house or polarization in the 60s and before and i for one certainly hope that it never goes back to way things were done on those days

That wouldn't be my experience. We all lived together, played together and worked together. There was plenty of employment and everybody got a fair crack at it and after the O'Neill concessions everyone got a fair allocation of housing too.

emmett123

GlynD wrote: »

That wouldn't be my experience. We all lived together, played together and worked together. There was plenty of employment and everybody got a fair crack at it and after the O'Neill concessions everyone got a fair allocation of housing too.

are you being serious like?
that the north was some ideal society until what? the IRA came along and ruined it, or maybe the Civil Right movement came along and ruined it? do you mean back in the 50&60s when the taigs knew their place?

emmett123

GlynD wrote: »

That wouldn't be my experience. We all lived together, played together and worked together. There was plenty of employment and everybody got a fair crack at it and after the O'Neill concessions everyone got a fair allocation of housing too.

and "concessions" ???

what? fair housing was something that O'Neill gave the Nationalists against his will... not that they deserved it as a right?

shaz77_2

GlynD wrote: »

Yes well you can only go so far when it's a "Protestant fraternity" I think we'd all agree that. I also believe I've seen that programme but I have some very real experience with Scottish Orangemen, some good, some bad. Same as over here. What these documentaries don't get to the bottom of however is the very overt bigotry which exists. I've seen it from both sides of the community and am totally appalled by it. It exists at the lower spectrum of the social scale. Ordinary grass roots people who tend to live in public housing estates: some of them lovely people too but with this inbuilt hatred of something they know nothing about - other men and their religion and aspirations.

These people would gladly have open warfare and some of them are the ones responsible for sectarian killings. I'm not talking about shootings by dissidents or other paramilitaries, I'm talking about beating teenagers to death etc because they're maybe known to be from a different religion/part of town, or maybe because they're wearing the wrong type of sports shirt.

In my opinion integration and the taking down of the social barriers caused by polarisation would stop this madness.

The Orange Order are wrong to try and bludgeon the people of Ardoyne and the government into acceptance. So are the Portadown lodges at Drumcree. Yes there may be an ulterior motive by dissidents or even SF but talking it through and getting agreement is the only way forward.

We'll agree to disagree on this one.

lazer

GlynD wrote: »

That wouldn't be my experience. We all lived together, played together and worked together. There was plenty of employment and everybody got a fair crack at it and after the O'Neill concessions everyone got a fair allocation of housing too.

emmett123 wrote: »

are you being serious like?
that the north was some ideal society until what? the IRA came along and ruined it, or maybe the Civil Right movement came along and ruined it? do you mean back in the 50&60s when the taigs knew their place?

emmett123 wrote: »

and "concessions" ???

what? fair housing was something that O'Neill gave the Nationalists against his will... not that they deserved it as a right?

I had written a reply, but decided against it - suffice to say there was a reason the civil rights movement was set up and the the the 60's and 70's GlynD has such fond memories of aren't so fondly remembered by all.

highrisklowreturn

Yes, the 50s and 60s not being remembered by "Christian" "catholics" (hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha) who find a "non-discriminatory" such as modern NI preferable, where they have to give kids up for adoption to gays, teach sex education in their schools, including contraception, have their religion publicly ridiculed everyday by the bbc, sky, itv, c4, c5 etc, being constantly told their church is run by pedos, have gays parade by St Patricks dressed as priests and nuns imitating sex acts on each other (whilst having their utter dunce of a rector protest other Christians for playing abide with me), teach under law philosophical equality to non-Christian view points in their schools, can't discuss religion openly in the workplace etc etc .... infinitely preferable to an Ireland based on Christian theological dogma, all the while whilst their congregation and baptism numbers fall off a cliff.....


Ahh thank goodness they're now equal - or is it they've swapped Christianity for Marxism in sinn fein. Maybe the big bad prods repressed you for being keen supporters of europes last respectable fascist part in sinn fein and because your co religionists had spent the better part of four centuries attempting to exterminate them across Europe like they previous did the muslims?

mezza101

lazer wrote: »

I'm sure it does - just like some people won't get promoted if they don't play golf or if they don't go out for "social drinks" with their colleagues.

All types of discrimination are wrong - promotions in work should be based on your ability to do the job (which can include how you get on with your work colleagues - but only during working hours should be relevant) and only on your ability to do the job.

Political views, what sports you play, religion, and numerous other things should not be relevant.

the headlines in the news here over the years about housing discrimination tended to focus on the prods discriminating against caths but most of the discrimination here happens within communities, as highlighted by this housing association report by the the beeb - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-23725517

lazer

mezza101 wrote: »

the headlines in the news here over the years about housing discrimination tended to focus on the prods discriminating against caths but most of the discrimination here happens within communities, as highlighted by this housing association report by the the beeb - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-23725517

We were talking about the 60's and 60's not today.

The nepotism and other discriminations that exist today are the reason the Housing Executive should not be closed, we need fair allocations.

GlynD

emmett123 wrote: »

are you being serious like?
that the north was some ideal society until what? the IRA came along and ruined it, or maybe the Civil Right movement came along and ruined it? do you mean back in the 50&60s when the taigs knew their place?

Where did I say that Northern Ireland was an ideal society? I'm fully cognisant of the failures of the state and why things happened the way they did. I also know what brought Stormont down and it was neither the IRA or NICRA. Although both would love to take the credit because NICRA was set up for that very purpose by the IRA through the Wolfe Tone Societies. .

emmett123 wrote: »

and "concessions" ???

what? fair housing was something that O'Neill gave the Nationalists against his will... not that they deserved it as a right?

He didn't give anything to the nationalists. He conceded demands to NICRA and other civil rights pressure groups. Nationalism wasn't part of their overt agenda although it was a covert aspiration of the NICRA committee when it was first formed.

In essence the civil rights movement was largely Catholic because they were most affected by the business vote and discrimination in housing allocation by local councils, but let me remind you that many Protestants were also affected by these things. That's why people like Ivan Cooper and Robin Cole were also involved in civil rights campaigning.

It's a sad fact about nationalism the world over that it needs grievance to thrive.

GlynD

lazer wrote: »

I had written a reply, but decided against it - suffice to say there was a reason the civil rights movement was set up and the the the 60's and 70's GlynD has such fond memories of aren't so fondly remembered by all.

I'm fully aware of why the civil rights movement was set up. I'm also fully aware that not everyone had the same experiences as I did. I am however living proof that integrated housing works.

Did you know however that NICRA was the brainchild of the Wolfe Tone Societies and that they and the IRA (Stickies) set it up? Civil disturbance was the objective. Funny though that although it was People's Democracy who finally started the spiral into disaster, NICRA tried to rein them in because O'Neill had conceded most of their demands.