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Why doesn't Cameron want Scottish Independence?

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Comments

  • kabayiri wrote: »
    Can I suggest multiple choice ?

    A) Scotland should be an independent country

    ......

    But seriously, there are highly experienced pollsters who have suggested that the word "agree" is a soft and leading suggestive term.

    I would have thought "Scotland should" is pretty leading as it is.

    Multiple choice just dilutes the question and it should be a straight yes / no answer.

    Just thinking out of the box and I know many will not like this idea, but if Labour, Conservatives and Lib Dems all want to keep Scotland as part of the Union, why not have an option such as: -

    Q) Should Scotland have the opportunity to have independance with a caveat that a second referendum is held 10 years (arbitary figure picked) after independance to understand if the people wanted to remain indendant or return to the union?

    This was the people of Scotland get the opportunity to be independant and if the Tories / Labour / Lib Dems are right and Scotland is worse off, then the opportunity to re-unite the kingdom as those parties desire.

    To be honest, I think the tories / Labour / Lib Dem's fear Scottish independance, hence why they want to fight tooth an nail to hold on to the union.

    How can you argue that Scotland cannot hold it's own but also that the union is better with them. They need to make their mind up.
    :wall:
    What we've got here is....... failure to communicate.
    Some men you just can't reach.
    :wall:
  • kabayiri wrote: »
    Can I suggest multiple choice ?
    ......
    But seriously, there are highly experienced pollsters who have suggested that the word "agree" is a soft and leading suggestive term.

    Maybe it should be multiple. Possible answers to "Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country?" could be:

    1. Yes it should, but I definitely don't want it to be.
    2. No it shouldn't, but I want it to be.
    3. Yes it should and I want it to be.
    4. No it shouldn't and I don't want it to be.
    5. Yes it should, but only if that creepy little Sturgeon woman is sacked straight away.
    6. Can I have all the options again, I'm confused.
  • sss555s
    sss555s Posts: 3,175 Forumite
    Fella wrote: »
    With respect you don't appear to know what you're talking about. I'm not talking about airy-fairy definitions (which you are). I'm talking about simple maths regarding stuff like revenue generation from Corp Tax and Income Tax. London & the South power the rest of the country. Fact. It's a similar situation to Germany in the EU, the difference is that altho the UK has one currency the same as the EU countries do, the EU countries DON'T have political union. Which is why in the UK the South subsidises the north with relatively little complaint ( as opposed to the massive complaint you'd see from German voters if the Germany was forced to bail out Greece etc).

    Wow! You really do think in the SE you are so much worth your double economy.

    Ok so Tesco's office is based in the SE but they make their money from stores from all over the UK. Their head office could in reality be anywhere. This doesn't really mean the SE office is paying all the corp tax even if the cheque is sent from there!

    We are all UK residents and paying equally to have a well run country. Germany being the dominant economy in Europe is a totally different thing as to the SE thinking they are a separate state of the UK :rotfl:

    It has been nothing more than greed and corruption of successive governments that has created this short sighted situation. The house I could have purchased in London 22 years age when I bought my house will be now worth double the value of my current one, the same applies to most outside the SE. That's not serving the UK.

    You sound like you'd rather cut loose the rest of England, Wales, Scotland and NI as your working so hard to pay for them. Imagine how rich you'd be without all the dead weight!

    Well until you woke up and realised were all paying for the SE mess.

    The UK will never be any better under the current model. It has reached it's peak and blown the lot in some ways. Course, the governments will keep this cosy "i'm alright jack" situation whilst taking their chance to fill their pockets in their short careers.

    It's supposed to be the UK government.

    Wake up!! There is life north of the SE.

    So as I asked before. Why is Cameron wanting to keep the Scots on board?
  • chewmylegoff
    chewmylegoff Posts: 11,469 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    They generally are these days at least This Week takes the p*ss out the situation.

    getting a convicted liar to come on the show to put the case for independence was a nice touch in the taking the p!ss stakes i thought!
  • zagubov
    zagubov Posts: 17,939 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Mistral001 wrote: »
    What will the Scottish Independence Party call themselves if they get independence? Can they still call themselves the Independence party? independent from what? The rest of the countries in the world? Surely every country is independent.
    Never heard of them.:D
    There is no honour to be had in not knowing a thing that can be known - Danny Baker
  • sss555s
    sss555s Posts: 3,175 Forumite
    getting a convicted liar to come on the show to put the case for independence was a nice touch in the taking the p!ss stakes i thought!

    There will be a lot of manipulating media over the next couple of years.

    What I remember of the last time in the 70's was how London were found out to have lied about the oil revenue.

    The shame!


    I don't think Scotland will get independence because too many will not want to take a chance on change and be happy with their lot.

    Hope I'm wrong and it may end up being the first time I've voted in over 20 years
  • GeorgeHowell
    GeorgeHowell Posts: 2,739 Forumite
    sss555s wrote: »

    Wake up!! There is life north of the SE.

    So as I asked before. Why is Cameron wanting to keep the Scots on board?

    Like most things in politics there's probably no one simple answer. I would guess that at least some, if not all, of the following apply :-

    Politicians never want their power base diminished, only the other way round (look at the EU)

    Even though some predict a perpetual Conservative government in a Scotland-less UK, it probably wouldn't happen. All parties in this country when in power for more than a couple of terms make such a c o c k -up of everything that people will go almost anywhere for a change. Being a realist Cameron realises this.

    The civil service which hates change and always wants to maintain and manage the status quo, however distasteful, will be advising and lobbying like mad to prevent Scottish independence.

    Extricating Scotland would not be a simple and straightforward business, and Cameron like most politicians can do without that headache if he gets another term. They would try to drive a hard bargain and he won't want to risk being accused of selling out if he gave ground.

    And independent Scotland could be a thorn in the side, especially with an SNP government stirring up anti-British sentiment. Better to have them on the inside p*****g out, than vice-versa.

    If the Scots vote No then it provides the opportunity to stop subsidising them so much, and to solve the West Lothian question. Both would be very popular among English voters.
    No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.

    The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.

    Margaret Thatcher
  • zagubov
    zagubov Posts: 17,939 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    sss555s wrote: »
    There will be a lot of manipulating media over the next couple of years.

    What I remember of the last time in the 70's was how London were found out to have lied about the oil revenue.

    The shame!


    I don't think Scotland will get independence because too many will not want to take a chance on change and be happy with their lot.

    Hope I'm wrong and it may end up being the first time I've voted in over 20 years
    Ah, the McCrone report -I thnk NNS had a link to that!

    Good luck. I don't have a vote there, as I obviously live miles away. I did vote for the only sucessful devolved government in England, as I believe decisions should be taken close to the areas where the voters live (which was pretty ironic considering the location).:D
    There is no honour to be had in not knowing a thing that can be known - Danny Baker
  • Angry_Bear
    Angry_Bear Posts: 2,021 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker PPI Party Pooper
    Incidentally, I don't know if anyone else watched Question Time last night. It came from Scotland. The Independence debate was its usual inane and bitter nonsense, but I noticed one huge misconception.

    It seems that an awful lot of people are 'confused' about it all since they don't know the 'vision' for an Independent Scotland. They think they need to know if Independence is going to give them high spend/high taxation or continue with free education/prescriptions.....

    Why is it that these people don't understand the difference between (a) A government you elect whether you are independent or not - which could be left wing, right wing, high spending, low spending, pro-Europe, ante-Europe, and (b) the implications of total independence from the British Government?

    Seems to me that this will ruin the vote. You will have the SNP pushing it's own political policies and saying "vote yes". Then you'll have the Labour Party pushing out totally different political policies and saying "vote yes". Unless both parties get together and push out messages to do with independence [and not political dogma] then the average Scottish punter is going to remain rather confused.

    I wish I could thank this more than once, I've been trying to make a similar point elsewhere but haven't put it nearly as well.
    Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?
    ― Sir Terry Pratchett, 1948-2015
  • sss555s
    sss555s Posts: 3,175 Forumite
    Incidentally, I don't know if anyone else watched Question Time last night. It came from Scotland. The Independence debate was its usual inane and bitter nonsense, but I noticed one huge misconception.

    It seems that an awful lot of people are 'confused' about it all since they don't know the 'vision' for an Independent Scotland. They think they need to know if Independence is going to give them high spend/high taxation or continue with free education/prescriptions.....

    Why is it that these people don't understand the difference between (a) A government you elect whether you are independent or not - which could be left wing, right wing, high spending, low spending, pro-Europe, ante-Europe, and (b) the implications of total independence from the British Government?

    Seems to me that this will ruin the vote. You will have the SNP pushing it's own political policies and saying "vote yes". Then you'll have the Labour Party pushing out totally different political policies and saying "vote yes". Unless both parties get together and push out messages to do with independence [and not political dogma] then the average Scottish punter is going to remain rather confused.


    I don't think party polices are much to do with independence.

    If the Scots get independence, they will then look at what each party is offering and vote for the one they like the best.


    Everyone knows UK labour has no polices to speak of at the moment but they will be running for election in the next couple of years, and a lot of people will be voting for them, what ever they propose.
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