Council Tax Court- Please Help!

caela_2

Hi all,

I'm really annoyed and slightly worried- the Council are taking me to court for the THIRD time now about my council tax. To clarify, the first 2 times were for different accounts.

I have to go in tomorrow because even though we arranged a payment plan on our council tax, I didn't know some of it hadn't gone through and they had never contacted us about it. Plus, they set the payments so high (£90 a month) that we couldn't afford it and often had to cancel payments. Instead of taking us to court, they could simply contact me on one of the 3 contacts they have on file (so not hard!) and ask a reasonable repayment. As it is now, they will probably have to take it out of my benefits and won't get as much as if they had just let us pay £10/ week for example.

I am really struggling to pay any bills- JSA simply does not give you enough to live on just buying food and we are then able to pay mobile phone bills on top of that (mine is £5 per month, my boyfriend's is £10) and internet (£20 or so). We don't have a TV or go out or buy new clothes. We get housing/ council tax benefit as well, which means we literally just get by. There is no other money left over to even pay water and electric so we haven't managed that yet. I simply don't know how people survive on this! The thing is, when I originally claimed housing/ council tax benefit, it was back in 2010 and they never put the claim through. It was all very confusing but every time I brought in the documents they asked for, they just asked for about 15 more items and simply made it impossible. I still don't know what the status of the claim is and if I can backdate my current claim (I have spoken to them several times about it and this is what they said I should do but they really don't know). If I had got that benefit, I wouldn't be in this situation now with council tax.

Any way, they took me to court first time round when they would not amend my council tax bill- they wanted me to pay some ridiculous amount to stop court action, before they would give me a real bill of what I actually owed (my boyfriend was a student so I should have been getting the discount, I was just waiting for him to send him form in). I offered them payments on the amount I actually owed, but they refused to take any part-payment and made it very difficult to negotiate. I went to court where I also mentioned the previous CTB claim and they investigated that, later saying I had not submitted a claim (even though I have a letter saying 'thank-you for your claim'...) so it's all very confusing. They got an order for an attachment of earnings and I never really heard again about it - I think they sent something to my work who binned it!

I don't dispute that I did owe them money at that point, I'm just highlighting that numerous times I tried to resolve it in a way which was actually doable- to pay affordable instalments. I offered them way more than they got on the attachment of earnings (which was eventually nothing but would have only been a few pounds). They simply refuse to do anything productive and instead of looking at my resources and thinking, hey this girl isn't lying she's broke and has made a reasonable offer, they just keep taking me to court expecting some other result!

I am going to make a complaint to get my money back for the court fees, because I heard at court that they were surprised the council did not allow me to negotiate a payment plan. Then, the next time they took me to court for a council tax bill I had no liability for. The landlord who we'd have lots of problems with put all the bills for an HMO in my name. I called the council who were threatening me with court again to say he had lied and there were more residents at the property. By my description of the property (and the fact it was registered as an HMO) they should have guessed I wasn't liable. Nope, no negotiations, as usual the stubborn council sets all their hopes on court action and guess what- I'm not liable like I told them 400 times. But I had to go to court any way, pay travel money and waste my time and mental health with their crap only to find out exactly what I know. Well, it was a bit more complicated than that and the landlord forged our contract to make it look like we were liable, so I had to again get involved when after saying we weren't liable, they then decided we were again (basically, they wrote to the landlord asking for the contract to decide liability, so he faked it). Then again I had to write to them and waste my time to explain this guy was clearly nuts and it was him who was liable for the council tax and FINALLY he got the bill and not me. Did they take up a case against him for fraud or take him to court? No, of course not. So this guys forges our contract and tries to fraud the council, but he gets away scott free and I'm in court for it.

Any way so now I am fed up of being hauled in and out of the court to go over what we already know when instead they could just arrange some sort of realistic payment. Does anyone know anything which can help me because I'm in court 9am this morning. Also, I want to make an official complaint and ask for the court fees back from the first time I had to go in, because I feel they should have discussed other options first and they even refused my offer to pay in instalments (even though they are allowed to do this). I would also like to be compensated for my time and stress for having to attend the second time for a bill which I should never have received. Each time, the council were not willing to discuss the case before court and reach a resolution. They have basically failed to communicate or take into account anything I have told them. The first time my bill was wrong and had to be recalculated (for student exemption) and they refused my suggestion to pay a certain monthly amount (it might have been accepted had the bill been correct and not some sky-high invention). The second time, I had told them how many times that I am not the liable party but STILL I am taken to court.

Is there anything I can do? Also, I don't know what to do tomorrow- I probably won't be able to attend. I don't dispute owing the money just it should have been covered by my CTB application which never went through and they would have it by now. Also, we had a payment plan set up but they didn't tell us they hadn't received any payments (mainly cos we couldn't afford it because they'd set them too high and also due to a banking error).

Thanks!

HappyMJ

I'd just let them get their liability order and then request an attachment of your benefit to pay £3.55 a week.

I know it doesn't help when you have nothing but you are supposed to continue paying council tax until the benefit claim has been accepted and you have a new bill. How do you pay it with £111.45 a week I have no idea.

McKneff

How much income do you have each month in the household.

Obviously JSA,housing benefit, council tax benefit etc. etc.

caela_2

HappyMJ wrote: »

I'd just let them get their liability order and then request an attachment of your benefit to pay £3.55 a week.

I know it doesn't help when you have nothing but you are supposed to continue paying council tax until the benefit claim has been accepted and you have a new bill. How do you pay it with £111.45 a week I have no idea.

Hiya,

Lol firstly thanks for making it through my crazy post! Secondly, I think you're right and I'll just let them take my benefit. I don't really care any more. I might not even turn up to court.

caela_2

McKneff wrote: »

How much income do you have each month in the household.

Obviously JSA,housing benefit, council tax benefit etc. etc.

Couple allowance JSA (around £200 every 2 weeks), HB (£450/ month) and CTB (not sure, goes straight to council).

Sounds like a lot but it's not!

MattLFC

You are currently getting ~£475 per month after ~£550 HB and CTB. That is equivalent to a wage of £1300pm/£15000pa, so it's certainly not a small amount.

Aside from utilities and food, you claim to have costs of just £35.00 per month.

Are you suggesting, you are spending £440 per month on utilities and food (high electric bill for someone who doesn't watch television?). I'm no expert, but even with a full-fat lifestyle (I'm not lots of talking luxuries, but taking about running a car, food, clothes as and when they're needed, even the odd night out a few times per year etc), you should be able to manager quite fine on £475.00 per month - I know everything that goes in an out of our household, and it's not much more than that, and we have the cost of a car to run, and fuel to work every day etc...

Can you provice a SOA please, so we can see where you are going wrong. Also, certainly arrnage to repay the arrears via your benefit, as above, it will be a miniscule amount compared to the amount a working person would be liable/expected to pay.

Alice_Jarrett

Many thanks

caela_2

MattLFC wrote: »

You are currently getting ~£475 per month after ~£550 HB and CTB. That is equivalent to a wage of £1300pm/£15000pa, so it's certainly not a small amount.

Aside from utilities and food, you claim to have costs of just £35.00 per month.

Are you suggesting, you are spending £440 per month on utilities and food (high electric bill for someone who doesn't watch television?). I'm no expert, but even with a full-fat lifestyle (I'm not lots of talking luxuries, but taking about running a car, food, clothes as and when they're needed, even the odd night out a few times per year etc), you should be able to manager quite fine on £475.00 per month - I know everything that goes in an out of our household, and it's not much more than that, and we have the cost of a car to run, and fuel to work every day etc...

Can you provice a SOA please, so we can see where you are going wrong. Also, certainly arrnage to repay the arrears via your benefit, as above, it will be a miniscule amount compared to the amount a working person would be liable/expected to pay.

Heya,

It sound like a lot but I have no idea where it goes. It's between 2 people, but here is what I spent the last JSA on (looking at my statement):

JSA £222.90 (making my account £226.72)
Petrol £10.18
Spar (shop) £14.66 (tobacco, groceries?)
Asda £19.06
Link £20
Asda £40.45
Asda £1.12
Spar £11.49
Returned DD charge £10
Spar £15.05
Petrol £7.46
Morrisons £9.95
Asda £11.95
Co-op £0.50
Petrol £5.58
Morrisons £6.01
Spar £6.47
Petrol £8.44
Asda £11.93

.... then I borrowed some money off a friend so it doesn't really count.

It seems most of the money goes on shopping! I honestly don't think I'll ever visit the Spar again, looks like we're spending lots there. It's cos we just got in to buy tobacco and they charge you min £5 or £1 card charge so you end up spending more. This was the last 2 weeks spend before we just got paid, so not sure what we bought at these places. Sometimes when I buy petrol, if it's over £5 I've probably bought tobacco as well. So lots on smoking I guess! Ew.

I never thought we spent so much on groceries simply because I always do a discount shop- every time I go Morrisons I'm getting bread for 9p and stuff, so bags of shopping for under a tenner. The statement is pretty confusing because the shops never take the money on the day, it just comes off my available balance, so this might not be exactly what I spent if that makes sense but I dunno I find it pretty confusing.

HappyMJ

£31.66 on Petrol...Where do you drive to? Try leaving the car at home at walking to the Spar. As you aren't working you have plenty of time to walk everywhere.

If you can't pay the DD's on time then cancel them and pay the bills in cash. The penalty for paying higher bills is usually much lower than the returned DD fee.

You have also spent £148.64 in two weeks on Groceries for two people....What do you buy?

As you are on JSA you should be trying to minimize this as much as possible. For 2 weeks the CCCS allows about £90 for 2 weeks and that is generous and that does include the spend on tobacco products.

caela_2

HappyMJ wrote: »

£31.66 on Petrol...Where do you drive to? Try leaving the car at home at walking to the Spar. As you aren't working you have plenty of time to walk everywhere.

If you can't pay the DD's on time then cancel them and pay the bills in cash. The penalty for paying higher bills is usually much lower than the returned DD fee.

You have also spent £148.64 in two weeks on Groceries for two people....What do you buy?

As you are on JSA you should be trying to minimize this as much as possible. For 2 weeks the CCCS allows about £90 for 2 weeks and that is generous and that does include the spend on tobacco products.

Hey,

Yeah we walk Spar anyway and only drive to the Supermarkets. Just I don't get out much so sometimes I like to drive around just to change it up a bit! The DD fee was my bank being an idiot as usual. It's a debit account, they shouldn't be charging me and I'm leaving it's just rude of them. Any way the person taking the payment was supposed to do it months ago but they had a billing error, so I got the money back off them.

I don't even know what we buy shopping. Obviously, loo roll, toiletries, cleaning, cat food, odd bits like socks or something... and food of course! I only really discount shop so I don't know how we spend so much. We got JSA in recently and I've already had to spend £25 on internet, £10 on petrol (it was below empty), £4 nearly on tobacco, £10 cash back, £15 meds for my cat who just got ill, cat food £5... and I think that's it! All in one day! Oh yeah and I got my boyf a Toffee Crisp haha cos he was feeling down. He got 2 beers as well for £2. We have been pretty upset about the cat, so trying to treat ourselves a bit. So that is how easy it is to spend lol- that was in one day! Nothing there we could have done without, apart from the tobacco and treats I guess! But that is a necessity too- to spend on fun a bit or else what is the point. We've been really stressed so I've been smoking more and my boyf needed a break so beer and a chocolate bar.

I think maybe we can cut back but I don't know what is necessary. Take the fun stuff off the list and you might as well do away with the other stuff too. Who needs petrol when you can stay in all day and stare at the wall, or go for a walk I guess... but how do you get to the shops? Or who needs a phone, just never speak to anyone. Lol it's possible to live off nothing I guess, but it won't be the same life by any stretch. My dream is to have some self-sufficient farm somewhere lol.

HappyMJ

caela wrote: »

I think maybe we can cut back but I don't know what is necessary. Take the fun stuff off the list and you might as well do away with the other stuff too. Who needs petrol when you can stay in all day and stare at the wall, or go for a walk I guess... but how do you get to the shops? Or who needs a phone, just never speak to anyone. Lol it's possible to live off nothing I guess, but it won't be the same life by any stretch. My dream is to have some self-sufficient farm somewhere lol.

I know I am stating the obvious but you could always spend your day applying for jobs, ringing employers, walking around looking for work.

The thing is is that when doing a SOA for the court or the council for council tax arrears then you can't use figures that are bigger than the CCCS figures. Try entering your details on https://debtremedy.cccs.co.uk/start.aspx and it will recommend figures you can use. As a car is not needed as you only use it to drive to the shops (you haven't mentioned a lack of public transport or for health needs) then they won't allow vehicle expenses. They also won't allow luxuries such as tobacco, beer and gambling. A few sweets are fine.

Yes, JSA isn't much but it isn't that much less (including housing and council tax benefit) than someone earning minimum wages (with working tax credits) and millions of people in the UK survive on that amount of money.