Leave to attend court

sarahg1969

My child has been called as a prosecution witness at Crown Court and we have received a notice to attend, which states she:

"must be accompanied by a suitable adult and that is preferably you as their parent/guardian".
The trial is set to begin on (date) and you must both attend.
You are both required to attend at 10am on the date specified above."

Does anyone know the position with regard to my obtaining unpaid leave (the court have said in correspondence they will cover my wages)?

My employers have suggested numerous alternatives to unpaid leave (which they have denied me):

1. Her father goes instead - not an option
2. A sibling accompanies her - again, not an option (and why should they??!!)
3. I take holidays - I am happy to do this if they are not obliged to let me have unpaid leave
4. I contact the court and demand that they provide us with a time slot now, to accommodate me, and make the time up - obviously not going to happen (the court will not accommodate one witness out of a dozen, for the convenience of my employers), especially if this drags on for days (I can make up a few hours, but not days).

I'm not sure if I've been summonsed as well, on the basis of the notice we've received? Or if I am entitled to unpaid leave, rather than holidays or making up the time.

I'd like to be certain of the correct position before I speak to my employers again, so does anyone have any ideas, please?

Thanks x

DVardysShadow

In the first instance, I would refer this to the office issuing the summons. Yours won't be the first occasion they will have met this situation.

A witness summons might be a sub poena [threat of punishment]. Does your notice indicate this and does it indicate who might be punished? Obviously, if the threat is against a child, they would need some brassneck to follow through - and I don't know whether they can apply that threat to you.

So it does appear to give you less leverage with your employer. I presume too that this is a prosecution which you feel needs to go ahead?

LittleVoice

I don't know the law on this.

You have, however, quoted the notice which says "accompanied by a suitable adult".

Why cannot her father go instead? Does she have no contact with her father? Is he prevented from attending by a similar reaction of an employer?

If neither parent can attend, is there another "suitable adult"? That could be someone who she knows well and would be a reassuring figure for her.

The court will know the law - whether employers are required to permit leave to attend. Contact them. I think there might be such a legal requirement - like allowing someone to attend for jury service.

sarahg1969

Thanks. Have just spoken, off the record, to someone from CPS. It's not an official summons, but it's a order that should not be ignored. They can issue a summons, and may do so if there are issues about us both attending.

With regard to the prosecution, that's out of our hands. My daughter is one witness of several, and we have no interest in the prosecution itself.

I guess if a summons is issued with both of our names on, then I have to attend, and am entitled to unpaid leave.

I'll speak to the witness liaison people tomorrow, and see what they come up with. I can't be the first, I'm sure. I'm just very surprised and disappointed at the attitude that's being taken.

sarahg1969

LittleVoice wrote: »

I don't know the law on this.

You have, however, quoted the notice which says "accompanied by a suitable adult".

Why cannot her father go instead? Does she have no contact with her father? Is he prevented from attending by a similar reaction of an employer?

If neither parent can attend, is there another "suitable adult"? That could be someone who she knows well and would be a reassuring figure for her.

The court will know the law - whether employers are required to permit leave to attend. Contact them. I think there might be such a legal requirement - like allowing someone to attend for jury service.

Yes, her father and I are married and we live together. However, she wants me to be there (and I think that is her prerogative in these circumstances) and it's not as easy for him to be there as it is for me, as he's self employed, and he already does the running around with the other children every day. Besides which, it's during the school holidays and he's at home with them then (he works from home). I'd have to take a week's holiday to look after them!

I don't think, if unpaid leave is an obligation, that my employers have any authority over what my husband does and doesn't do, just for their convenience.

There is no one else who can go. Everyone works, and I think it would be rude to ask other people to take up to a week off work so I don't have to.

My employers have suggested that they will lose a lot of money by my not being in the office, and questioned whether or not they would be compensated. I pointed out that they wouldn't be if I personally had been summonsed or called for jury duty.

If I have to, I will take holidays, no problem. But if I don't have to, I'm not doing.

DVardysShadow

sarahg1969 wrote: »

They can issue a summons, and may do so if there are issues about us both attending.

....

I guess if a summons is issued with both of our names on, then I have to attend, and am entitled to unpaid leave.

I'll speak to the witness liaison people tomorrow, and see what they come up with. I can't be the first, I'm sure. I'm just very surprised and disappointed at the attitude that's being taken.

It looks like a summons would actually be helpful here. And it seems to me that your employer might do themselves in the eye if the summons does not arrive until right on the date.

DVardysShadow

sarahg1969 wrote: »

Yes, her father and I are married and we live together. However, she wants me to be there (and I think that is her prerogative in these circumstances) and it's not as easy for him to be there as it is for me, as he's self employed, and he already does the running around with the other children every day. Besides which, it's during the school holidays and he's at home with them then (he works from home). I'd have to take a week's holiday to look after them!

I don't think, if unpaid leave is an obligation, that my employers have any authority over what my husband does and doesn't do, just for their convenience.

Well, there ain't a lot of point in your OH taking her, if you have to stay at home. The only difference would be that you would have to take holiday rather than taking unpaid.

In your position, I would be looking to get a summons and I would not be filling out a paid holiday request for this.

duchy

What is the issue with you taking unpaid leave ?
Why is it supposedly losing your employer money -as they wouldn't be paying you ?
Is it a particually difficult time of year for you to absent (and if so why are they happy for you to take holiday yet can't spare you if it's unpaid leave ?)
Is the company a big one with a head office with an HR dept you could discuss this with ?

Really your employer sounds awful

sarahg1969

I work for a large-ish company (and really, they're not awful - they're great to work for), and the decision has been made by the HR director.

No issues with the time of year, no. It's never happened before, and they say it's not policy, so I either make the time up or take holidays if I can't make arrangements for someone else to do it.

My time is worth a lot more to them than I get paid!! Although, honestly, the work would get done eventually. In reality, I'd get back to a backlog, and would end up working like mad to make it up anyway.

I'm not going to go in there shouting about my rights, but I do want to know what the rights and wrongs of this situation are, so I don't get fleeced.

I have to say I'm shocked myself. I've been there a long time, and have never asked for anything, but they're a well-respected company and have always seemed very, very reasonable with their employees. I only mentioned it to give them advance warning. I didn't expect such a hostile reaction. It's very sad.

princessdon

Ask your court appt liason officer if you can claim

For Eg Jury duty - they repay wages (to a set amount)

When I had Jury Duty I had to claim - the difference was paid by the company - but I HAD to claim the statuatory amount from the courts.

If it is a legal requirement and you can reclaim part of the money it may alter your employers opinion

Hope it all goes well!

sarahg1969

princessdon wrote: »

Ask your court appt liason officer if you can claim

For Eg Jury duty - they repay wages (to a set amount)

When I had Jury Duty I had to claim - the difference was paid by the company - but I HAD to claim the statuatory amount from the courts.

If it is a legal requirement and you can reclaim part of the money it may alter your employers opinion

Hope it all goes well!

They've already said in correspondence that I can claim my wages, but that's not enough for my employers, sadly.

I'll speak to them tomorrow about my personal obligation to attend, and what this means from my employers' perspective.

Thank you all x