Advice needed please

Tripletdad

Hi everyone,

I have been a long time user of the MSE site but have only recently started reading the forum. Everyone seems very knowledgeable and helpful so I'm hoping you might be able to help me...

I have been spending the last few years struggling by and just about managing our debts on my own but the last few months have been a huge struggle. To cut a very long story short, as my user name might suggest, we recently had triplet girls. I say recently but they actually have just had their 3rd birthday. We already had a daughter when we had the surprising news about the triplets and she is now 5. This information is relevant because obviously our life changed when the triplets arrived and so did our financial situation.

My partner had to give up work to look after them and the cost of childcare meant that she would have been working simply to pay childcare. This meant that we had to go from two salaries to one. We already had some debts from our past but were all manageable. Our mortgage was obviously arranged based on both our salaries so as a result we have had to do a lot of cutting back. Through using this site and other resources I have cut back on everything I can think of including:

• Replacing Sky with Freesat
• Stopping pension contributions
• Changing utilities suppliers (twice in 3 years - latest switch in progress)
• Re-arranging all possible bills to get cheapest deals (insurance, broadband, phone etc)
• Temporarily changing mortgage to interest only
• Cancelling unnecessary outgoings (gym, subscriptions etc)
• Take interest free loan from parents to pay off some higher interest debts

I think we have cut back just about as much as we can and to be honest we go without a lot of things as it is. We don't buy clothes, we haven't had a holiday for years and some weeks we struggle to buy all the groceries we need. Having struggled by like this for 3 years we always knew that there would be an end in sight when my partner was able to return to work. However, this is not likely to be for another year yet and the longer it goes on the more debts we rack up.

I have pasted our SOA below and I am after some advice as to what we do next. I have contacted CCCS about a debt remedy plan but I don't want to go down the route if I can help it as we can afford to meet all of our bills right now. The main problem is that we have next to no money to live on and we have had to dip into credit cards or overdrafts to pay for things like new shoes for the kids, car maintenance, childcare (just paid last instalment so figures not shown in SOA).

Things I have considered are:

• Selling house and downsizing and using some of the profit to clear debts
• Using CCCS or similar to undertake a debt management plan (want to avoid if I can)
• Taking in a lodger (not ideal with 4 kids in the hours)
• Doing some extra evening work (not ideal when we have 4 kids to look after)
• Remortgaging - not sure this will be possible on just my salary?

Anyway, I've rambled on enough. I'm sure I haven't covered everything but my SOA is below and I can answer any more questions. I should mention that the loan from my parents (£9k) is not included in these figures as they have agreed to let us stop paying for the foreseeable future until we get ourselves sorted. Our payments to them were £277 a month and I'd like to start paying them back something when we can. Only other thing to mention is that the mortgage payment listed is interest only and that Halifax expect us to return to repayment in September when we were hoping my partner could return to work but that is now looking unlikely.

Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet

Household Information
Number of adults in household........... 2
Number of children in household......... 4
Number of cars owned.................... 1 (plus 1 company car)

Monthly Income Details
Monthly income after tax................ 1965
Partners monthly income after tax....... 0
Benefits................................ 586.12
Other income............................ 0
Total monthly income.................... 2551.12

Monthly Expense Details
Mortgage................................ 755
Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0
Rent.................................... 0
Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
Council tax............................. 141
Electricity............................. 50
Gas..................................... 50
Oil..................................... 0
Water rates............................. 65.46
Telephone (land line)................... 9.1
Mobile phone............................ 50
TV Licence.............................. 11.5
Satellite/Cable TV...................... 0
Internet Services....................... 11.49
Groceries etc. ......................... 600
Clothing................................ 20
Petrol/diesel........................... 150
Road tax................................ 20
Car Insurance........................... 48.41
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 50
Car parking............................. 0
Other travel............................ 0
Childcare/nursery....................... 0
Other child related expenses............ 200
Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 0
Pet insurance/vet bills................. 5
Buildings insurance..................... 10
Contents insurance...................... 10
Life assurance ......................... 43.77
Other insurance......................... 0
Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 10
Haircuts................................ 10
Entertainment........................... 100
Holiday................................. 0
Emergency fund.......................... 0
Total monthly expenses.................. 2420.73


Assets
Cash.................................... 0
House value (Gross)..................... 230000
Shares and bonds........................ 0
Car(s).................................. 2000
Other assets............................ 0
Total Assets............................ 232000


Secured & HP Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
Mortgage...................... 195000...(755)......3.95 (variable) 7 (fixed)
Total secured & HP debts...... 195000....-.........-

Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
Argos Card.....................700.......10........29.9
Barclaycard CC.................4200......95........7
Barclays Overdraft.............1900......25........19.3
Santander Overdrafts...........3050......40........daily fee
Capital One CC.................800.......45........unknown (partners card)
Total unsecured debts..........10650.....215.......-


Monthly Budget Summary
Total monthly income.................... 2,551.12
Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 2,420.73
Available for debt repayments........... 130.39
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 215
Amount short for making debt repayments. -84.61

Personal Balance Sheet Summary
Total assets (things you own)........... 232,000
Total HP & Secured debt................. -195,000
Total Unsecured debt.................... -10,650
Net Assets.............................. 26,350

Toomuchdebt

One thing that struck me is the water rates-I have 6 children and went on a meter and applied for their capped scheme-you have to have at least 3 children and be in receipt of more than the basic tax credits which I believe you are so might be worth looking at?It's halved my bill as it's capped at 306 a year.I was paying 68 a month on water rates.And we don't really conserve water at all-lots of showers and baths and washing with 6 kids LOL]

Oh and groceries can definitely be reduced-I spend less than that with 6 kids and a dog and cats.I spend around 400 a month and that includes nappies and washing powder etc.Old style moneysaving board is good for ideas.

LittleMissGiggles123

Wow triplets!! I can't imagine what that must be like. Very rewarding but hard work I bet.

Anyway, back to the problem. I know not ideal but could your wife maybe work a few evenings or weekends to raise some extra money. That way you can look after the kids while she's working but she's still at home when you're working. I know it's not great not getting to spend much time together, but hopefully this should only be until the triplets are in full time school so looks like a year to go.

Other than that, I can suggest buying the kids clothes on ebay/gumtree etc. People sell practically new bundles of clothes on there for next to nothing. I've recently got rid of a huge bundle of my daughters clothes, some new with tags. Sold them on ebay for about a tenner, I didnt want them so didnt care about only getting a tenner for them & at least they'll be useful for someone else then.

I'm sure more people will be along shortly with some advice

x

wannabee_in_credit

Hi and welcome.
Others will be along to share advice with you about your SOA - there are a couple of things I can see for cutbacks (I feed a family of 4 on £250 a month so suspect there's room to cut back on groceries) but people with more knowledge than me will be along to help.
The one thing I did want to say though, is that if you're having to dip into overdrafts and use credit cards for things then really you're not managing at the moment are you? Your SOA suggests you have a shortfall each month and you have admitted that once bills are paid there's no money for anything else.
If there's no end in sight shortly then I would seriously recommend rethinking the dmp option. I resisted going down that route for a year, but eventually admitted defeat, and only wish that I'd done it sooner. You've had a massive change in circumstances and it could just be the case that you can't make ends meet any more - there's no shame in it. I have 2 young kids and know how expensive they are, and haven't had a third because I can't afford it mainly... so I can imagine that financially speaking, 4 children is a struggle.
From my personal experience, don't wait until the situation gets a lot worse before you seek help.
Good luck!

RAS

Hi

The most obvious thing is groceries - the artful here reckoned £60 per month was manageable - that might be a fiver more now. Certainly with small kids £450 is well and truly possible.

With respect to extra work, because of the tax and NI situation, if you wife could do one or two evenings a week or one weekend day, it would be much more effective than you doing more hours.

What is that child related expenses?

FireWyrm

Groceries. It's the killer and £600 a month is absolutely unsustainable. I feed a family of four on a strict budget of £120 a month and that includes sundries like milk and bread. Here are a few thoughts and since your wife is at home, entirely doable.

1) buy a bread maker for £30. A kilo of bread flour is 59p, less if you shop around. You get at least two loaves to the kilo of good quality bread and it's also good for anything that requires dough like pizza, rolls, baps etc. Get a decent quality one, and you can make jam from the PYO fruit just starting to come into season. Seriously, it's the best thing I ever bought.

2) change your shopping habits. Standard generic olive oil based spread is one third the price of the likes of utterly butterly. There are other changes you can make too if you look around. For instance, I'm hosting a bar-b-q this evening. I have baked two batches of soft White rolls for 30p, 800g of mince for £4 to make homemade burgers, 800g of chicken breast at around £3.50 (on offer as out of date) for kebabs and 16 sausages at £2.50. This will feed 4 adults and two hungry kids. Topped off with tinned fruit and cream for afters and as much salad as they can eat.

I buy pasta in at least 5kilo bags, rice in 20kilos and noodles in similar quantities. If we want pizza, we use the bread maker for dough, cook down a tin of tomatoes and dried herbs and have cheese, mushrooms, ham, olives and a bit of cured meat for flavour. My daughters swear it's the best pizza in the world. You would pay £15 at least in takeaway...I make it for about £2.50.

3) try other shops and the drop a brand challenge. Stop buying branded foods. Other than a sad experience with a Ryvita clone, I havnt found a single alternative analogue that was inferior to it's branded counterparts. Trust me, you really can fill your trolly at certain supermarkets for £100 and last a month on it.

4) don't trust offers. Most supermarkets either increase the price shortly before an offer, or if you look carefully, you'll see that two of the smaller containers are often cheaper than one big one. It's a standard scam that's been going on for years. Vote with your feet or read the price stickers very carefully.

Good luck

Tripletdad

Thanks for all your replies so far. I have already downloaded the Welsh Water Assist application form to fill out this weekend and will need to do a closer analysis of our grocery bill. £600 was an estimate based on us doing one 'big' shop a week online at around the £100 mark and then buying additional items as and when needed which I estimated to be around £50 a week. Even if I've over estimated these figures I can see that this is a good place to cut back. We do try to make the most of offers and buy a lot of unbranded items (Sainsbury's basics or Tesco value etc). We also have started using Lidl quite a bit where you can get great quality food at for the same price as the value range. However, I think we have been guilty of buying too much convenience food ie. frozen rice sachets, steamed vegetable packs, microwave meals etc. This was because by the time I get home from work and all the kids are in bed it's normally gone 8 o'clock so starting to make a meal is the last thing we want to do. However, if we can make further savings it's worth a try.

Keep the advice coming you clever people! :T

FireWyrm

Electricity and gas bills. If youre not using it, turn it off. Wash up by hand instead of the dishwasher, atleast until you sort yourself out. Buy a rotary line and air dry clothes, it's summer, so you should get a decent number of reasonably fine days to dry with. Do you have radiators? Use those for clothes. Turn the heating off, you don't need it unless you live in the outer Hebrides. Put on a jumper instead of the heating.

It might sound extreme, but every little helps. Pillar candles in IKEA are cheap as chips. Energy saving lightbulbs are good. Get the kids to make some candle lights out of decorated old jam jars. Keeps them occupied and is far cheaper than buying them.

If you use herbs, try growing some. Likewise small cottage gardens in containers if you have the space. I buy bunches of herbs from my daughters that they have grown. Keeps them busy and gives them a sense if achievement. I then freeze the herbs so I have ready fresh all year round and they get pocket money or sweets in exchange.

It's an old idea, but I have an ING savings account into which goes £50 per month. This pays for Christmas complete including all presents, food and drink. I dont end up with massive bills in January.

Make do and mend on clothes. Kids shoes are a constant difficulty to me, so something has to be sacrificed to compensate. I save every month for clothes and shoes adding extra to the kitty about now to pay for September school uniform. Old clothes are for play and god help them if they go out to play in school shoes.

The charity shops and car boot sales are a lifesaver for hard pushed parents. Children run through clothes so quickly, you can often pick up reasonable quality clothes for a fraction of the price at these places. New shoes are a given, but no one says kids can't be happy in patched jeans and t-shirts. Learn to sew. I have an old Singer I picked up at a jumble sale and I made curtains for the girls room for the cost of materials and a little of my time. I feel proud every time I catch sight of them. It's not brain surgery, there are plenty of helpful sites on the Internet. Likewise, I took up crochet to give my mind a rest at the end of the day and new hats and gloves are always a welcome gift.

If you live in a rural area, you can often barter with neighbours for resources they have. My next door neighbour had lovely fruit trees but the fruit goes ti waste because he can't pick it. He can't cook either...I can...so, apple pies in exchange for all the fruit we could pick. Damson jam...yum.

I've been experimenting with soap making. A chemistry lesson for the children (make sure they don't touch the lye) and an interesting experiment for me. Next door gave me some pot pouri she made from her Rose bushes let year, I made her a pound of soap in return. I think it might be the start of a blossoming relationship :-) Next experiment is hand cream and bath bombs.

Research old methods of doing things. Don't pay for expensive cleansers when good old vinegar, lemon juice, bees wax and soda will do the trick just as well.

With the rise of tax on alcohol, forays into beer and wine are imperative. It's not hard to make and I believe is as good if not better than what you can buy.

Ok, I'm not suggesting you do everything I've suggested, but even a moderate change in habits will save you hundreds of pounds a year if not thousands. We are all guilty of taking the easy road...talking if which, drive at the speed limit..not because I'm a speed Nazi, but because I guarantee about a 100 miles more out of a tank of petrol if you do. I went from 300 miles to 430 on my car just by driving at 70 instead of 80.

Have fun. Experiment. Just because it isn't the latest, greatest, or best brand, doesn't mean you are hard done by. Keep more of your money for yourself and your family by making even tiny changes to the way you think and live.

Standingtall

Hi Tripletdad:). Just trying to be imaginative here. Are your triplets identical? If so and you live near a city, is there a chance of getting some promotional modelling type work for them? I know it is a long shot and some people may not approve but I imagine it would be well managed and since your wife isn't working the I guess she would have the time to investigate the possibility. As I say, just trying to think of getting some extra money into the budget.

Good luck:)

Tripletdad

RAS wrote: »

Hi

The most obvious thing is groceries - the artful here reckoned £60 per month was manageable - that might be a fiver more now. Certainly with small kids £450 is well and truly possible.

With respect to extra work, because of the tax and NI situation, if you wife could do one or two evenings a week or one weekend day, it would be much more effective than you doing more hours.

What is that child related expenses?

Hi Ras,

We are currently waiting to hear on a possible years part time paid training course for my partner that will fit in with the kids free nursery place so that would give us around £350 a month. Not sure whether we'd lose any tax credits though?

The child related expenses I have based on an average spend of £50 a week that we spend entertaining the kids. This will be less in the summer when all they need is a park to run around in but in the winter with 4 kids 5 or under unless you can take them out to soft play, activity areas, play groups etc most days they just become stir crazy I the house! It's something I've targeted to cut back on as I think there are plenty of free things that kids love to do. My partner thinks this will be difficult and I don't disagree but needs must.

MFWannabe

Tripletdad wrote: »

Thanks for all your replies so far. I have already downloaded the Welsh Water Assist application form to fill out this weekend and will need to do a closer analysis of our grocery bill. £600 was an estimate based on us doing one 'big' shop a week online at around the £100 mark and then buying additional items as and when needed which I estimated to be around £50 a week. Even if I've over estimated these figures I can see that this is a good place to cut back. We do try to make the most of offers and buy a lot of unbranded items (Sainsbury's basics or Tesco value etc). We also have started using Lidl quite a bit where you can get great quality food at for the same price as the value range. However, I think we have been guilty of buying too much convenience food ie. frozen rice sachets, steamed vegetable packs, microwave meals etc. This was because by the time I get home from work and all the kids are in bed it's normally gone 8 o'clock so starting to make a meal is the last thing we want to do. However, if we can make further savings it's worth a try.

Keep the advice coming you clever people! :T

Hi

With reference to meal planning. Think about buying a slow cooker. You can purchase one really cheaply and they are fantastic for putting meals in and they are cooking throughout the day so ready for when you get home!! Appreciate your partner has her hands really full with all the children but they are quick to put meals into. This would stop you then buying convenience foods for quick meals when you get home. You can also use cheaper cuts of meat in them.