Renewables: "talking 'bout my generation"

EricMears

Quite a good day but with its disappointing side. Output peaked at 3.5kW about 40mins after true noon. Alas, at the actual noon, we had clouds overhead an output dropped below 1kW.

Day yield 22.85 kWh - indeed we're still generating (20W) so might creep up to 22.86.

Oscargrouch

6.04 O's today, bit of thundery looking cloud around this afternoon; unless it was smoke from Shafeeq's bonfire.....

zeupater

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

.... Would save a lot of hassle if i could find where this software is available. Anyone know where to get it?

Beginning to think that the info/advice i`m getting is being biased towards the systems that PV companies get the best wholesale prices for and not the best inverter/panel pairing that produce the best performance/value.

As the inverter looks the most important bit of kit might go direct to the manufacturer, if they are uk based, to see which panels they believe perform best with their inverter.

SL

Hi

You could do worse than downloading & trying the SunnyDesign software for SMA inverters .... http://www.sma-uk.com/en_UK/services/downloads.html

Probably take you a while to work out how to use it, but it would be a few hours well spent ...

HTH
Z

Sirlaughalot

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Afternoon SL. I'm greedy so going to take Mert's thanks, and hope they are mine.

Ok, where do you go from here. Hopefully the roofer can give you an exact measurement. You should be able to get the width of the roof, by simply measuring the width of your house(?) You can also get a pretty accurate measurement of the 'length', by measuring the height of the roof from inside and using Pythagoras' theorem - you'll need to measure the depth of the house and half it for the other half of the right angle triangle.

Slap the figures on here if you're not sure.

Next, how many panels will fit, well 7m by 5m and 7.1m by 5.3m are both interesting. Remember you'll need to deduct approx 200mm (300mm would be better) from all 4 sides. Panels sit quite high, so they can't go too far up or they will be higher than the ridge and thus need planning permission, plus harder to fix if too close to ridge tiles. Bottom and sides need to be careful of wind lift and any potential encroachment onto neighbours (semi-detached?).

Next, you'll need to check the size of the panels, most will be 1m wide (but double check specs) and somewhere between 1.6m and 1.7m tall. Also need to allow 20mm gap between panels for fixings.

So approx sizes (of interest) for your roof are:
5 panels wide will need approx 5.08m,
4 panels wide will need approx 4.06m,
3 panels tall/long 4.84m to 5.14m and
4 panels tall/long 6.46m to 6.86m.
(plus 200mm to 300mm all round)

Some examples;
16 panels 1m by 1.6m will fit 4.06m by 6.46m after allowing 300mm all round, but 1.7m panels wouldn't.

15 1m by 1.6m panels might just fit if roof is 5.3m if you put them 4.84m by 5.08m.

I'm also thinking you could 'easily' fit 12 1m by 2m panels in an approx 4m by 6m pattern. Not sure what panels are available but have found Canadian Solar make a 295W approx 2m by 1m.

Apologies if all this causes you a headache but an accurate measurement is necessary as both the width and height are very tight when you look at some of those measurements.

[Quick digression - Just found some Sunpowers, remember I couldn't find a direct comparison, but thought they were pretty expensive ... well, the Canadian Solar 295W retail at £175+VAT, and the same store has Sunpower E20 327W for £387+VAT]

Don't let any of this get you down, every day you know a little more, and there is no rush. Take a breather.

[STRIKE]Mert[/STRIKE] Mart.

Great stuff Mart,

I`m sure that in terms of technical knowledge i`m miles ahead from where i started thanks to the brilliant help from yourself and many others. Just got so annoyed when sales people just don`t do the basics correctly for all the fancy presentation tools and gear they have they can`t get a silly measurement right.
Anyway onwards and upwards as they say! Seen the roofer earlier on and he will take measurements for me before he sets off to work. He has an all singing all dancing infra red measuring device which he points at the apex and lower roof points and he swears the accuracy is 100%.

I have heard that August 7/8 is a big decision day in terms of the EU/China anti -dumping row. China goods could have a tax of 40% + lumped on. Talked to Green Energy and they say the energy inflation figure has already been factored in to FIT payments for this year so no need to rush into anything there.
May be able to get a good deal on a Chinese panel the longer i leave my decision. I know the Perlight panels seem to be really cheap at the moment.


SL

Martyn1981

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

Great stuff Mart,

I have heard that August 7/8 is a big decision day in terms of the EU/China anti -dumping row. China goods could have a tax of 40% + lumped on. Talked to Green Energy and they say the energy inflation figure has already been factored in to FIT payments for this year so no need to rush into anything there.
May be able to get a good deal on a Chinese panel the longer i leave my decision. I know the Perlight panels seem to be really cheap at the moment.

SL

Good luck with the roof measurements.

Future FIT - I need to caveat this bit, as I can't find the rates for 1/10/13, should be really obvious. Anyway, the degression will be based on the qtr one before (May and June (shortened qtr)). I can't imagine how this could have hit the necessary 100MWp to instigate a 3.5% reduction, so I assume (dangerous thing to do) that there will be no degression - taking you up to 1/1/14(?) Will update when I find the necessary OFGEM page - I'm sure it should have been posted 2 weeks ago, total blind spot here.

China - Try those 4 web-sites I posted. Loads of articles on China v's EU. And some recent posts on the News thread:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4377643

TBH, I can't make head nor tails of it. No gut feeling whatsoever where this is going. Dumping is not a good thing, but cheap panels and thriving installs are. Latest news sounds 'very slightly' promising, but this could be sorted today or run for months/years.

http://www.pv-magazine.com/news/details/beitrag/import-duties--further-movement-in-eu-china-negotiations-_100012079/#axzz2ZNLbnGzX

"It will be interesting to see if concrete figures are put on the table by the end of the week and whether a compromise can be achieved. If there is no agreement by Aug. 5, current provisional import duties on Chinese crystalline wafers, cells and modules of 11.8% will increase to an average of 47.6%."

Things 'PV' looked very promising at the start of the year, with falling prices and a pretty generous FIT, and steadily rising levels of installs, but then it all got messy!

Mart.

Martyn1981

Generation back on course with an exact 30kWhs (5.38 Os) yesterday. Phew, was starting to panic that I'd have to live on 28's & 29's.

Mart.

legoman62

Another great day yesterday = 6.41 O's:D
Plenty of sun but a little cooler with a slight wind here on the E. Coast......My panels love it:rotfl:

John_Pierpoint

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

Need help please. One salesman has told me that because i have the old type analogue electric meter because these don`t work with correctly with PV systems i will have to get it replaced at a cost to me. Could add £300 - £500 to the cost. Is he correct?

Thanks

SL

I don't know about the list that "Z" thinks details the "backwards" performance of electricity meters
.
However there is a super thread on here somewhere, where at high summer someone noticed that the sunnier the day the more electricity the supply company's meter reported.
It was a Siemens" if I remember correctly and it contained an element of programming; such that those who tried to fiddle their meter by switching over the tails got charged for the electricity passing through the meter regardless of direction.

The supplier's clerks just never got their heads round the concept and eventually installed a "check meter" and jumped to the conclusion that the ordinary meter was simply running fast 12 months of the year.
The resulting "highest ever refund" must have come as some form of compensation to the by then frazzled house holder.

jackieblack wrote: »

Could he have meant the fuse board, rather than the meter?
We had an old one (house built in 1960s) and had to have a new modern consumer unit fitted before we could have our PV system installed. We were quoted £300-£500 from the installer for that, but got it done by a local electrician before the installation quite a bit cheaper

There may have been a change in the regulations since my installation 17 months ago, but my circa 1970 wiring simply had a modern "garage" unit and an extra "Henley" box added. (translation: the garage unit is a simple two "fuse" way consumer unit intended to supply a power circuit and a lighting circuit to an outbuilding - my "outbuilding" is the inverter in the attic room and it does not need its own lighting circuit. Henley is a traditional trade name supplier of big chunky chocolate coloured terminal boxes. The terminal box allows the new garage unit to stand alongside my existing row of "fuses", acting as an extension compliant with modern regulations.

http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh_search=connector+block&fh_view_size=20
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh_search=%22garage+consumer+unit%22&fh_view_size=20
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh_search=meter+tails&fh_view_size=20
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh_search=earth+rod
https://www.shmmetershop.co.uk/Landis-and-Gyr-5235B-100A-single-phase-kWh-meter-pulse-output-MID-Ofgem-Approved.html

However I did have an electrical issue that fooled the installer's TWO fully qualified electricians and it was caused by their failure to recognise a 1970s TT supply system and its earthing implications. [More details on here somewhere if you are in the same boat]

The Mark group "surveyor", who could not meet the ending of the FiT deal in March 2012, was also fooled by my "earth leakage circuit breaker" and said I would need to have a qualified electrician check the situation.

If you take a photo of your supply board in your meter cupboard (or where ever it is) and publish it on here several of us will be able to comment on the "frying tonight" implications of your existing system.

Martyn1981

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

I don't know about the list that "Z" thinks details the "backwards" performance of electricity.
However there is a super thread on here somewhere, where ar high summer someone noticed that the sunnier the day the more electricity the supply company's meter reported. It was a Siemans" if I remember correctly and it contained an element of programming. such that those who tried to fiddle their meter by switching over the tails got charged fior the electricity passing through the meter regardless of direction.

Extract and thread link below:

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Solar PV Q&A’s Index PTI

4. My meter is running backwards – Do I need to do anything?

NB: Though rare, some people have found that their import meter may be reading the excess electricity that is being generated and exported to the network as if it is being imported.

This appears to be a known 'fault' with some Siemens meters (possibly S2AS) that have an 'anti-tamper' programme. All the exported units are supposed to be available from an internal register - though you may have difficulty in finding an operator who understands the situation. Your REC's solar energy helpline might be able to help.

Some recent MSE threads:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3871161

Mart.

zeupater

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

I don't know about the list that "Z" thinks details the "backwards" performance of electricity meters ....

Hi John

As part of the original microgeneration consultation Ofgem published this ( http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Networks/ElecDist/Policy/DistGen/Documents1/10626-12305.pdf ), which stated ...

"10.10. Ofgem has no statutory remit in respect of export meters. However, meter examiners appointed by it have the power to approve and certify the import functions of meters and to ensure that the export function does not compromise the import registers. The approval does not include the accuracy or function of the export measurement. There is nothing to prevent suppliers from installing meters without reverse stops at ‘import only’ sites. In such cases, the subsequent installation of microgeneration would result in reverse running."



Subsequently, as a follow on exercise, Ofgem looked into the effect of reverse energy flow through existing household meters by contacting the manufacturers, resulting in the following document ... http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Markets/sm/metering/crf/competition/electricity/Documents1/5560-manufacturer_poll_response_summary.pdf ... the most relevant section being ... "5. Are there any other implications on meter functionality of prolonged exposure to export energy conditions?" ....

HTH
Z