Father wont make a Will

basedinhull

My parents are both in their 80's and my father wont make a will. They both have long term health issues.

They have the marital home in both names valued at around £400,000 and a similar amount in investments/savings (virtually all in my fathers name)

I have been trawling various sites and am struggling to find concrete information on what would happen if my father passes away first. Some seem to indicate that everying goes to my mother whilst some seem to indicate that the first £250,000 goes to her and 25% into trust and 25% shared amoungst the children.

I am continuing to try and convince my father to make a will and will probably also have to get some legal advice, especially as there is 1 'black sheep' brother who he does not want including.

In the meantime, any genuine advice would be welcome.

dzug1

Your second scenario is nearest - £250K to the widow. Half the rest into a trust from which the mother gets the interest and the other half divided amongst the children. The trust money goes to the children on the mother's death.

John_Pierpoint

This is the default option that most fathers and mothers opt for by not making a will.
My father opted for the then similar option in the late 1960's - but he did not expect to drop dead aged 50.

There are some annoying differences from writing the same thing into a will - mainly that you are not the personal representative until the court has appointed you as such by issuing letters of administration. I have had idiots parroting:
I must have a copy of the grant of probate.
There isn't one - Look at this: we are appointed by the court................
I must have a copy of the grant of probate.
............................................................................................

You run into those sorts of problems with power of attorney too.
Has dad & mum given you Lasting Power of Attorney - that can be even more necessary than a will, especially if something like a stroke strikes them speechless.There is a limit to what you can do with knock once for no and twice for yes.

The home is probably held as joint tenants - if you don't know for certain a few quid invested with the Land Registry web site should answer the question. If joint tenants then mum will get the 200K she does not already own regardless of any will.

I'm not sure how the 400K investments would then be divided up in an intestacy and I have not got time to dig about to check it out.
Can anyone else help out?

John

PS Don't for get the parable of "The Prodigal Son" .
When mum has control over the majority of the estate then "absence may make the heart grow fonder".

noh

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

............................................................................................


I'm not sure how the 400K investments would then be divided up in an intestacy and I have not got time to dig about to check it out.
Can anyone else help out?

As dzug1 posted above.

dzug1 wrote: »

£250K to the widow. Half the rest into a trust from which the mother gets the interest and the other half divided amongst the children. The trust money goes to the children on the mother's death.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cto/customerguide/page14-1.htm

hcb42

It could be of course, that Dad does not want to abandon "prodigal son" so he won't express either way.

I had a brief chat with my Dad about willmaking before he died...(he brought it up not me, I was not comfortable and never would have questioned it), anyway the way he saw it there was not a lot of difference if he wanted to divide everything equally among four children. He died, intestate, 2 months later.

John_Pierpoint

noh wrote: »

As dzug1 posted above.



http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cto/customerguide/page14-1.htm

I'm not sure if the 200K of house that she gets automatically because of joint ownership, counts towards mum's 250K absolute payment.

The alternative being that she can claim the house AND the first 250K of the investments.

Either way it is looking like there will be no IHT payable on the first death (which could have been a problem in an intestacy case, because the tax man is the beneficiary who has to be paid first, before the executor and especially an administrator can get at any of the money in the estate.

However it is important in this case to calculate the amount of the IHT nil rate band of the first to die that will be preserved for the second death.

whitewing

This thread makes interesting reading if anyone is thinking of leaving someone out of a will (I know the original post was deleted, but the title gives the gist).
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3262772=

I think it is entirely possible that your father does not actually want to make a decision to leave the black sheep out. Really, what does it matter, as long as your mother is provided for, and the rest of you get equal shares. I know the extra comes in handy but it should be a gift received with gratitude, not a 'right'.

dzug1

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

I'm not sure if the 200K of house that she gets automatically because of joint ownership, counts towards mum's 250K absolute payment.

.

It doesn't - it's entirely separate.

diable

If he doesn't want to make a will then leave him to it as it's prerogative.

John_Pierpoint

..........................but I would still be worried about lasting power of attorney, if there are already "health issues".
Most people die "after a short illness", but some of them hang on after a stroke or with dementia for years and years.
My sister & I had Enduring power of attorney for our mum - it cost a quid on a form, which covered both power of attorney (compos mentis) and enduring power of attorney (compos mentis no longer). I got the form from a legal stationer on the way to the hospital - I also got "authorised legal signatory" on her bank account in advance of needing it.
I can't remember if we ever needed to use the PoA. - though I do remember a problem with "Cheltenham & Gloucester", who were sharp enough to query mum's deteriorating signature.

Unfortunately the current equivalent "Lasting Power of Attorney" is a bureaucrats dream and an honest relative's nightmare. It costs serious fees to set up and will take weeks - It can become more than your worst nightmare if you wait until you get the NHS query:
- Is he/she self funding? (Well get the bed blocker out of here pronto, we don't do "old age" it is not a curable illness !)

SailorSam

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

PS Don't for get the parable of "The Prodigal Son" .
When mum has control over the majority of the estate then "absence may make the heart grow fonder".

How very true that is !