'Should we starve the jobless back to work?' poll discussion

marko2002

If some are better off not working this does not require a review of the amount of money those people receive in benefits, it warrants a look at the amount of money they can earn whilst working. Remember, the whole idea of receiving benefits is to keep you above the poverty line whilst you are out of work, it's not meant to be a long term solution and shouldn't be considered as such. If the government consider X amount as the minimum you need to survive, then this should be taken across to the workplace after taxes, not a reduction in the amount of benefits someone receives. As I've stated before, it shouldn't be an issue regarding the amount of money people receive, or how they use it, the circumstances behind why they are receiving the money should be dealt with correctly which means for those claiming sickness they are required to satisfy their own Dr and/or an independant Dr, if it's found they are not as sick as they claim their own Dr should be made accountable also, it's no use a GP signing a sick line when there is nothing technically wrong with you or at least nothing that would stop you working - when they do they should answerable to the medical council and possibly even struck off if found to be giving out certificates without proper investigation.

Similarly, those out of work for a few months or more should be dealt with properly and if, as it is at the moment, there is little in the way of work for a lot of people, there is nothing anyone can do about this other than the government create new jobs where possible, the benefits system would be able to cope much better and have a great deal more money in the first place if all those who shouldn't be on it were dealt with properly in the first place.

busi_issi

The benefit sysyem was set up as a safety net for people in genuine need. The problem now is that its being sorely abused by the workshy and greedy. How many people do YOU know that claim benefits and have a wee job on the side or claim to be unable to work due to their made up illness? Do you report them or just ignore it hopng someone else will do it. You wont starve these people back to work but you may starve the genuine ones. This problem did not happen overnight and it wont go away overnight. All the political parties need to work together to solve this problem and thats not likely to happen. There are people on benefits who want to work but can't find a job. Hardly their fault. The minimum wage is a hugh joke especially for the young. A multiplicity of problems. No simple solutions. I think we should vote Martin for prime minister. :T

Cerisa

"the whole idea of receiving benefits is to keep you above the poverty line whilst you are out of work, it's not meant to be a long term solution and shouldn't be considered as such"

It didn't keep me above the poverty line. I also think it should be equal to keeping you for two whole months. Do you honestly think it's possible to pay bills and eat out of £45 a week? actually you can; if you don't attend any interviews, if you don't smoke, if you don't have any health problems (you can get prescriptions on the NHS, i'm talking about painkillers etc) if you don't have any bad luck, if you don't get robbed, if your bills don't suddenly go up, if the JSA don't mess up and forget to pay you, if you can find the top up for your rent - housing benefit doesn't pay the cost of your rent, it pays the lowest minimum for the area, and trust me, on benefits you can't afford to move.

I used to spout these platitudes before i actually experienced being on benefits. It's hideous.

Cerisa

"How many people do YOU know that claim benefits and have a wee job on the side or claim to be unable to work due to their made up illness?"

None.

Fran

Sorry, but the poll is very flawed. Housing Benefit is paid in full (up to specified local limits) for someone on JSA or Income Support so the £50 is irrelevant if you are talking only about 'money to live on'. This isn't clear so presumably some people will have voted with a £50 difference. Also an amount of money is totally different to someone in a rural area with high travel expenses to a local shop (eg.) than someone living next to a cheap food shop etc. Also if people are in debt then having a real minimum (enough only to buy very cheapest food etc. or vouchers) will capitulate them into more debt. The biggest problems would be homelessness as people lose their homes and this is already a problem. Mental health problems would cause or be the result of this situation too.

MSE_Martin wrote: »

Those who are saying no benefits - I find shocking. Frankly lets say we did that with our 2m unemployed and maybe it forced 500,000 back into work. That'd leave 1.5m people with no income forced into the black economy or crime.

Exactly, and more mental health problems. It would affect the already disadvantaged. People would lose their homes and be on the streets, you can't pay electric bills with no money.

831badger wrote: »

People who are on benefit should be provided with food vouchers

So because someone loses their job they should suddenly lose the dignity of choice? The only other group like this is prisoners.

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

Um, do you remember the 1980s? Do you remember the last Conservative government? Do you remember how Thatcher took on one section of workers after another and defeated them?

If we want jobs, they're the last people we want back again! It would be like putting Dracula in charge of the blood banks.

I remember and I totally agree. Please vote and stop the Tories.

jamespir wrote: »

the dwp dont class same sex couples as couples and therefore get treated differently to hetrosexual couples

Couples are now treated exactly the same, whether same sex or other sex.

marko2002

Cerisa, I have experienced being on benefits, when I was unemployed we survived, granted my circumstances may be different to yours, I am married with 2 children but any increase in money we received was obviously to feed and cloth 4 people but it often doesn't work out like that anyway, usually it's the kids that come first and us adults tend to wear shoes, etc to death but nevertheless we survived. At that time, my wife was also quite ill and was being diagnosed with all sorts of illnesses and on all sorts of medication so when I was in receipt of JSA having these medications paid for was another relief - personally I don't believe anyone should have to pay for medication, it should be free for everyone, that's why we pay our NI after all. As for the rent situation, I find it unusual that your rent wasn't paid in full, again I don't know your circumstances but for council tennants the rent is usually paid 100% and most of the council tax so unless you're in a home you own then you should have had your rent paid in full. As for painkillers, you can also get these on prescription if your issue is a known one to your Dr, my wife did.

"if you don't attend any interviews"
You can get this money back from the job centre

"if you don't smoke"
I smoked when I was unemployed, I went onto rolling tobacco, wasn't really my cup of tea but it was either that or stop smoking and at that time it was stressful enough without trying to stop smoking!

"if you don't have any bad luck"
Hmm, I think being made redundant is probably the worst luck anyone can have

"if you don't get robbed"
If you were robbed of your money, the job centre would help you with a crisis loan or something similar

"if your bills don't suddenly go up"
Can't be sure what bills your talking about, but when I was laid off I cancelled all but the essential utilities such as gas and electricity, phone went, internet went, Sky went

"if the JSA don't mess up and forget to pay you"
Crisis loan

"if you can find the top up for your rent"
Again, not sure why you're rent wasn't paid in full

antonia1

marko2002 wrote: »

As for the rent situation, I find it unusual that your rent wasn't paid in full, again I don't know your circumstances but for council tennants the rent is usually paid 100% and most of the council tax so unless you're in a home you own then you should have had your rent paid in full.

So what happens if you are in privately rented accomodation? Would the housing benefit cover the £420 each month I pay for a room in a shared flat?

yellowduck_2

I voted for £100 a week, I have had several periods of unemployment and despite the media myths of a life of luxury paid for by the state I did not spend my time quaffing beer while gazing at my flat screen tv all day, pausing only to phone for some fast food. No, i was cold, (heating payments ate up at least 18% of my benefit) hungry (I had to pay prescription charges so it was food v medication) and downhearted (I always got shortlisted for jobs but it took me 6 months to finally be offered one and that was a temp one). I live in a big city and there is very little work about, the local press used to have a jobs supplement that was about 6 full pages, it is now apprx 2 pages and closer examination of the ads reveals a lot of them to be ads for training courses, cold calling sales stuff, there are very, very few what I would call "real" jobs, i.e full time, permanent and with a reasonable salary. I have just got a job after a long period of ill health, 600 people applied for 6 posts. I was lucky and it still is paid at £8k less than I was earning before and is only for 12 months.

yellowduck_2

oh and don't forget that "the unemployed" could include you one day, it's apprx 2.5 million at the moment and I have a feeling that post 6 May when the real cuts kick in it will go a lot higher.

ThinkingOfLinking

antonia1 wrote: »

So what happens if you are in privately rented accomodation? Would the housing benefit cover the £420 each month I pay for a room in a shared flat?

No. It depends on your age, but in my area, they ONLY give £55 a week to under 25s; my old room was £74 a week and I had to live on supermarket value range noodles and porridge for 6 months til my contract expired and I could move....then spent 3 days moving all my stuff by hand, on foot as I had no way of affording the moving van.